Who First Started Insulting Jews With "Non Messianic" to call all believing in Judaism?

Does anyone know who first coined the antisemitic and inflammatory insult displaying entitlement to remove the messianic belief from Judaism by calling all who adhere to Judaism, adherents of some nonexistent entity called "Non Messianic Judaism"?

I’m curious if the person who coined this term would openly admit to being the author of such a display of arrogant entitlement to try to negate a thousands of years old principle of Judaism.

I have only seen this term used by members of a particular group who follow the scriptures of a DIFFERENT religion than Judaism (New Testament) but claim to be Jews ("Messianic Jews")despite having no connection to the Jewish people according to the laws of the Jewish people (Torah). Their messianic belief isn't that of Judaism or the Jewish Bible.
A pretty new attempt that's increasing in use is to justify calling Jesus their “Jewish” Messiah, then openly insult all believers of the religion of Judaism by referring to Judaism as “Non Messianic”. They use this term to apply to Jewish believers (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, and Renewal) in attempt to negate God’s prophetic vision of the Davidic Messiah found within the Tanakh for Jews. In discussions with Jews around the world, and as evidenced by many questions, answers and comments in response to this insult being applied to Jews in Yahoo Answers, no one I’ve encountered appears to have seen this insult before a little less than a decade ago, so I am curious who began it, and where it was first used.

The term itself reads very clearly as attempt to display entitlement to REMOVE from Judaism one of the very principles OF Judaism. “Non” means without. Messianic refers to a belief in the concept of a Messiah. Messiah is the English translation of the Hebrew word mosiach, meaning an anointed ruler. The prophetic vision of the Davidic messiah of the Jewish Bible is that an anointed ruler descended from the house of David will rule from Israel with humility, mercy and justice and usher in world peace, universal brotherhood and universal knowledge and understanding of God.

It is clearly wrong to call Judaism or any Jewish believer “Non Messianic”. A Jew who is atheist or secular could perhaps be labeled this if they do not believe the principles of the faith of Judaism. The Christian Bible's redefined concept of Messiah is "non Jewish" or Non Torah compliant. Jews don't claim Christians have no messianic belief because their concept is incompatible with that of the Torah and Judaism. It is a DIFFERENT messianic belief. There is no separate movement or branch or sect of Judaism that uses a name of Messianic Judaism because all of Judaism remains messianic in belief. There is as little need to name a separate movement of Judaism monotheistic Judaism as all of Judaism believes that God does not incarnate into human form as the Torah states.

Judaism remains messianic and retains the Jewish Bible’s concept of the Davidic messiah. For adherents of another religion's scriptures to display entitlement to both hijack the name of the Jewish covenant nation and purport to negate the messianic belief of Judaism is arogant and insulting.

PLEASE do not answer or contact me with attempts to try to justify the USE of this insult. Answers that attempt to *justify hateful insults* will be appropriately reported as hate speech.

I do not invite inflammatory speech. I am asking for a very specific bit of information while I’m explaining to any non Jews who stumble upon this who may not have read Jewish forums or q and a forums asking about Judaism what has been going on in the past few years in escalation of antisemitic attacks upon Jews and Jewish communities.

***I am asking for informational/educational purposes if anyone knows exactly who it was that first coined the inflammatory insult of “Non-Messianic” to refer to all of Judaism. ***

In order to counter hate one must be informed of the methods employed to spread the irrational bigotries. As in ages past, terms and concepts foreign to Judaism were created to incite hate to Jews and specifically used concepts that were attempts to REMOVE from Jews, the laws that define us as a covenant nation people and that attempt to remove specific beliefs from Judaism or claim we do and believe things we don’t to incite hate.

Removing laws of self-determination was done to render the Jews impotent as a people, as were the various dispersions and exiles of Jews in history. Claiming Jews believe and do things we don’t justified those persecutions.
The notion of Jews as a race rather than membership determined by Jewish law, and the notion that “chosen people” implied superiority are two that are still spread on a daily basis

Therefore, I am NOT asking for anyone to justify any of those notions used to negate Judaism and the Jewish people. There IS no rational, logical justification to display entitlement to claim authority to remove a principle of faith/belief with an insulting term. I want to know who coined it to try to understand the methods of spreading antisemitism and to educate against bigotry.

The same principle applies for ANY religion or any people. There is no justification to create terms of entitlement to negate the core doctrines or histories for others.

The 13 Principles of Judaism compiled in a list by Maimonides existed since the receiving of the Torah and still exists intact today for Judaism. See the following for explanation of them
http://www.jewfaq.org/beliefs.htm
Jews are increasingly being insulted with the deceptive term “Non-Messianic” to address us. It is clearly insulting and an ad hominem attack to address individuals who have clearly demonstrated belief in Judaism as being “Non Messianic Jews”! Daily there appear questions and answers and more commonly, harassment and personal attacks under closed questions that insult Jews with this term. There are many dozens of instances of Jews being TOLD we are Non Messianic when the individual clearly knows better, or of others answering questions about Judaism with doctrines from the New Testament (texts outside of and antithetical to Judaism) in lieu of Tanakh and Judaism. The NT adherent will claim that all “other” Jews are “non Messianic” to justify labeling themselves Jews in violation of Jewish law, call Jesus the messiah of Judaism (as Christians believe), and justify their missionary attempts to proselytize to and insult Jews and Judaism for explaining actual Judaism.

Despite having first asked people to refrain from insulting Jews with this term and explaining to those who may have first adopted it in ignorance of Judaism that Judaism NEVER Abandoned belief in God's prophecies of the messianic age as detailed in the Jewish Bible’s messianic prophecies and that the term is nonsensical at best to apply to any believing Jew in the world, the use of the term has escalated and in direct response to Jewish objections from Jews around the world. The application of this insult is now most often accompanied by other egregiously antisemitic insults. It is very clear to all Jews I’ve discussed this with from every movement and from Jews in a dozen countries, that its use is a purposeful attempt to inflame and insult Jews and Judaism and misinforms people that Judaism doesn’t have a messianic belief.

It’s like calling someone of another religion who worships a different god, as “godless”. (Oops, these SAME people have done THAT, too when Jews say that Jesus/Yeshua is not God)

I now wonder how soon it will be before they come up with even more insulting terms. Will they soon create a new moniker to refer to all of Judaism as godless because we don’t believe Yeshua/Jesus was god incarnate? Will they then likewise try to justify this new term to claim that because we also didn’t abandon Torah's concept of the nature of God to adopt their religion’s scriptures redefined concept of the nature of God, that we don’t have belief in God either? Judaism is both messianic and monotheistic. No matter the different movements’ disagreements of how to honor the eternal law, the core of the eternal covenant is common to all of Judaism. The “gospels” of the New Testament (even if translated into Hebrew) are not scriptures of Judaism.

Judaism worships the monotheistic Creator and believing Jews will never permit this to be altered within Judaism, and for this reason...those who insist on redefining and negating Judaism but feel entitled to take on the name and identity of the Jewish people also appear to feel entitled to now tell us because we have refused to abandon the prophecy of the Davidic messiah and messianic age found within Judaism’s own Holy Scriptures of the Tanakh in lieu of the REDEFINITION of the “New Testament” that we don’t have a messianic belief.

If that isn’t insulting, what is?

As I’ve detailed before in other writings, it clearly isn’t hate or bigotry to note the differences between the doctrines of different religions as all comparative religion courses require and as is necessary to learn about what people of the world believe from their own perspectives. So when the world’s Jews repeat for the umpteenth time as we have for centuries, that the Christian religion’s Old and New Testaments and their redefined nature of God and nature and job of the Davidic Messiah are outside of an antithetical to Torah and Judaism we aren’t displaying hate to their right to believe different things in their very different religion.

*The Jewish people still refuse to accept that any other religion has a right to *remove any of the the principles of the faith of Judaism from the Jewish people or from our Holy Scriptures*.

If you don’t choose to believe in the laws and ethical precepts of Judaism....don’t believe them. You don't have entitlement to negate them for adherents of Judaism.

Insulting Judaism to call it "non Messianic" creates an unsolvable dilemma for them when they use that term to insult Judaism while claiming Jewish identity. They use it in attempt to NEGATE one of the principles of the religion of Judaism with a term that means messianic belief is NON existent in Judaism, and then try to replace it with the REDEFINED and Torah violating concept from the New Testament calling *it* "Messianic Judaism" when their messiah belief isn't from Judaism or the Jewish Bible.

If Judaism didn't have a belief in God's prophetic vision of the Davidic Messiah in the *eternal* covenant then the creators of their "NEW" covenant replacement theology wouldn't have had it to morph from an anointed king who brings universal brotherhood, peace and worship of God into an incarnate sacrifice for sin. Unwittingly, by the evangelical Christians' creating the purposely inulting term "non Messianic" to negate the religion of Judaism that still retains the belief in what God promised Israel..despite themselves, they've exposed with that one insult term alone, that their New Testament isn't of the eternal covenant of Torah/Judaism at all!

To claim entitlement to negate for another people defining aspects of their doctrine that makes them a people reveals contempt for them, not vice versa. And if there is anything that can be objectively shown about Judaism in the existence of Jewish history is that while empires have come and gone, the refusal of the Jewish people to alter or abandon God’s Torah has kept us alive as a people and shall continue to do so.

Am Yisrael Chai.

Refuting Fallacious Debate and History Revisionism

I can't link to IT from here until the question closes, but If you're reading this here now, it is likely you arrived via my "EDIT" link asking you to read my response to the playground taunts that I have nothing I could say to refute them.

This post is made to address ad hominem, and other fallacious debate techniques used to try to circumvent objective evidence that I gave in an answer to a baiting question on an online question and answer forum.

I realize I might just be giving a bigot the jollies with this by a page devoted to address one notorious Jew hating disrupter. However, he is one who joins others that long ago hijacked a section of the internet to promote war mongering and hate propagandizing. My values do not permit me to remain silent to that. I also hope this will help at least a few people understand a complex situation a little better once they can clearly see common methods of propagandizing and abuse being employed by those who want to hijack efforts to peace in the Middle East and in the World at large.

While I am addressing the words of only one known Jew hater’s comments, note the techniques he uses aren’t unique to him and this isn’t the only topic his methods of propagandizing are used to support. He makes false allegations, twists what someone else said then demands his perversion be justified by the person falsely accused, project bigoted ideation and canards, make unsubstantiated claims and then demand proof for everything the other person said while either providing no evidence to substantiate his claims or giving references that if actually read, discredit his own claim. He is certainly not going to like this post today. Those methods are becoming increasingly commonplace online. Another thing that such people depend upon is to only appeal to others with a similar irrational bias. These methods always fail to convince objective thinkers. His methods are not focused on that sort of person, anyway. They focus on people who are ignorant on a topic and do not have the time or inclination to investigate for themselves.
They may or may not refer to a claimed source, to support some of their claims, but upon investigation, the objective reader discovers that *is* their Achilles' Heel. The easiest way to discover how duplicitous they are is to go to their claimed sources and read what is actually written in context. This is another reason why you might see the most detailed answers I give on controversial issues such as bigotry to Jews and the efforts to eliminate Israel, and *especially* if they are well referenced with scholarly sources, with the most thumbs down. They want to hide the fact that their own words led to the discovery of just how egregious they lie.

I have not even begun to address this particular question and one user’s attacks upon my answer yet. In addition, since I first wrote down an address to all his attacks and asked people to email me for them at the q..He added another attempt to deflect with escalated deceptiveness by perverting another user’s answer, too.

With that particular user, the correct answers that he’s most likely to try to discredit by method I call..baffle with bullshit..are either answers that max out the space allotted or are very long. He chooses those specifically because he knows that the person he is attacking must remove some of the information that he did not want seen in the first place to address his false charges. It is a form of moving the goalpost. Then he will give a list of nonsensical misrepresentations or false claims as charges against the correct answer and claim the person *cannot* refute them. It is only SPACE that doesn't permit refutation in those instances as he certainly knows.

To the answer that called me out..I copy paste (his misspellings and all) and then address them… I don’t claim to be a good writer myself, so excuse my grammar boo boos. His comments are in quotes followed by my response after a <
You may note that I’ve written most of this as if addressing HIM since I first typed most of this rather stream of consciousness when he first made the charges in case he actually writes to me. I won’t hold my breath waiting because I know he knows I can refute lies with evidence.
I also emailed much of this to the asker, unsolicited. Prior to my posting this and a link at the q, only two readers wrote to me to see what I had to say to his charges. I emailed them draft versions of this. The response was as expected. :)

Now to eviscerate the fallacious debate techniques that were there to try to discredit my answer:
“Does that mean there is no sch thing as Metis? Cajuns? Celts?" < Strawman…easily knocked over.. The people who comprise “Palestinian” identity in history are many different ethnicities, nations and peoples. If he wants to talk about who was historically called Palestinian, he’s going to have to admit that it didn’t refer to Arab Muslims in any exclusive manner and in almost all instances of historical reference, it was speaking exclusively of the indigenous Jews. He’s even given historical evidence throughout his claimed refutation that the Jews are the indigenous people referred to as Palestinian, as I wrote, and as the Mark Twain reference HE gave a little further on to support that mark Twain referred to the Palestinians…he omits that Mark Twain was talking about Jews when he said it! . Also a little farther on, the Jew hater’s comments also gave evidence to support continual Jewish presence by referencing the “Palestinian Talmud. “ A term used in English that was coined as a later reference for the texts titled “תַּלְמוּד יְרוּשָׁלְמִי‎, Talmud Yerushalmi, often Yerushalmi for short. HIS claim is to insinuate that “Palestinian Talmud” is the title, when that certainly isn’t the case. Objective evidence proves that beyond doubt.
In addition, the Palestinian Orchestra was a completely Jewish orchestra that existed prior to the formation of the State of Israel. I could keep going on and on, but why? Palestinian wasn’t the identity of any ONE people, although the world at large always equated it with Jew..and that’s another reason why for centuries, the non-Jews who were also living in the region didn’t like it.
"If they really wanted peace they would give up their farms and homes and leave" (paraphrasing) What kind of logic is that? So if Arabs occupy Israel, when did this happen? < He certainly is not paraphrasing me or any answer I could find there. He has pulled that one completely out of his tuches. He’s right, that’s not logical and it is only his illogical claim. Next..he says, “if Arabs occupy Israel”. Arab refers to an ethnicity now, and while Arabs most certainly “occupied“ and conquered many lands in the Middle East, this ethnicity and language has now permeated the region for a long time among many different peoples. There are more than a million and a half Arab Jews in Israel whose families were expelled from Arab lands and were taken in as citizens, not kept as political pawns and permanent refugees.
“Can you point to a period in time when the entire population was removed and Arab introduced?” < Can YOU point to anyone’s claim that the entire population was removed? Your desperation to obfuscate is glaring like a spotlight here. http://www.imninalu.net/myths-Arabs.htm No one said the entire population was removed…another straw man and other fallacies …this link will help the uninformed learn of the ancient history and expansion of the Arab empire. Different peoples living in the ancient Levant have come and gone and largely due to the conquest of various empires and either extermination, expulsion or assimilation. This doesn't obfuscate that the homeland of the Jews is Israel or remove the archaeological evidence and continual Jewish presence however meager at times, despite ALL efforts to remove Jews completely.

“Why is the Cohanim genetic marker MORE prevalent in Palestinians then any Jewish group?”< “Palestinians” as I’ve shown, historically WERE Jews, Cohenim genetic markers are not found in any non-Jewish group more than in any Jewish group. Many Jews that it is found in are Palestinian..you’re using fallacious debate technique. I don’t care to pull out all the genetic studies, but will note that your claim even notes that there is ancient genetic evidence of the Cohenim..tHe Jewish people present in the region. Thanks.
“For your claim to be correct you must have an answer to these.@mama pajama Mark Twain's book "Innocents Abroad" was written in the nineteenth century- it refers to Palestinians- the indigenous inhabitants.” < Yes, it most certainly does, and thanks you for noting that he recognized the Jews as the indigenous peoples. Many sites reference his writing about the Holy Land and how few people inhabited it http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Arabs_in_Palestine.html
He mentions some places as entirely devoid of people, which some modern Palestinians claim their families had large communities and had owned at the time, too. So, who is right Mark Twain or the claims of the “refugees”?
"Seven Pillars of Wisdom" by TE Lawrence speaks of the Palestinians. < Of course, a British citizen would use the British term to refer to all inhabitants of British Mandate Palestine. Doesn't TE "Lawrence of Arabia" also refer to some of the individual peoples by their nation names?
“Khayr al-Din al-Ramli was a Muslim scholar who lived in Ramla in the seventeenth century; he wrote of "Palestine" and "Palestinians". < NOT QUITE.. This cleric famous for his fatwas briefly referenced the Roman province of Palaestina Prima, or as it was known in the early Islamic period, Jund Filastin, one of several sub-provinces of the Unmayad and Abbasid Caliphate province of Syria , organized soon after the Muslim conquest of Syria in the seventh century. I searched Islamic sites for several hours and could find no quote claiming he called himself Palestinian in this writing. That was one of your claims attacking the OTHER person’s answer.

Misleading using Muslim references is just as disrespectful to Islam as your lies about Jews.

“ In fact could you provide an example of a Palestinian humiliated because the British called them "Palestinian"? in fact I just bet you won't.” < The claim I made was that they continually charged that the term was created to humiliate them. They did this for a very long time. Here is only one of the quotes that aren’t difficult to find at all if you bother to look. Here you go..a complaint to the British rejecting the very term Palestine.
"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it". - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937
I’ve got more..and some even delivered at the UN..so..it is very clear that you lost your bet.
What did I “win”? I am not clear what you wagered. I won’t hold my breath waiting for you to admit it.

“Even being referred to a "Palestinian" was so humiliating, then why would a JEWISH writer (Philo) refer to the "Jews of Palestine" in FORTY CE (BEFORE the fall of Jerusalem and Bar Kokhba revolt under Hadrian.” < Philo was a Hellenized (Greek) Jew. When you quote that he said “Jews of Palestine” he notes that Jews were OF the region! You’ve shot your own lie in the foot. Therefore, you admit that Jews were of the larger region the Greeks called Palestine. There goes the lie that Jews are foreign to the region.
Then you twist both my words and history. Philo didn’t live during the British Mandate and wasn’t issued the ID card that the different Arab nations complained was so humiliating and humiliating because they didn't want to be mistaken for the Jews who had historically been referred to for so long as Palestinian, some of them ( as I gave evidence already) falsely even claimed Jews created the term!
The term 'Palestine' is derived from the Philistines. In the fifth century BCE the Greek historian Herodotus used the term Palaistine Syria (= Philistine Syria) to refer to the whole region between Phoenicia and the Lebanon mountains in the north and Egypt in the south. (While the exact meaning intended by Herodotus is debated, later *Greek* writers certainly used 'Philistine Syria' in this very broad sense.) The Greeks felt a great kinship to their ancient kin, the Philistines. Greece was the HOMELAND of the Philistines and they even shared the same religious practices as archaeological evidence exists to support!
Palestine wasn’t the name of a country or an indigenous people to the region, it was the name referred to a region by Greek and Roman conquerors.
Until the early part of the twentieth century, the word Palestinian simply referred to the inhabitants of the region, whether they were Arab, Muslim, Jew, Samaritan, Christian or Druze. Moreover, even they did not use the term widely. Only since 1948 has the term come increasingly into use to refer to all the non-Jewish inhabitants.
Just as the modern term “ARAB WORLD” was only coined in the 20th century by the 21 members of the “ARAB LEAGUE” to designate their member countries and to promote a political goal and strategy for the conquest of a form of empire, so too, was the term “Palaistine Syria” applied to a REGION that comprised many countries/kingdoms/ and peoples who all had their OWN names for their own lands and countries.
　
“Why would they refer to the "PALESTINIAN" Talmudh if it were so insulting? A good refutation to Thomas McCall's claim can be found here http://www.churchhistory101.com/century1-palestine.php “
< I can’t also help but notice that you ignored the objective physical evidence of the Arch of Titus in Rome and the coins they designated as capturing JUDEA. The massive amounts of objective archaeological evidence in museums in Israel and around the world stand as testimony revealing who is “manufacturing” history to try to HIDE the evidence of history. Actually if you read that link, the claim that Thomas McCall is wrong isn’t refuted at all there. They simply refer to the earlier use of “Palaistine Syria “by the *Greeks* who refer to their term of conquest. The term didn’t refer to native peoples, but was a name given to the region by conquerors. This is clearly noted at his OWN website reference if you read. He also ignores that no archaeological evidence exists to support that people IN the region used the term at that time, but that other names WERE used in archaeological evidence.

Thankfully, the objective reader sees these things.

“But I know none of this means anything to "Mama pajama" who will just ignore the facts and refuse to acknowledge or refute.” < Easy taunt to make when my Answer already maxed out the space permitted. It is the FACTS that you are so obviously desperate to obfuscate. Did you forget that that not everyone is desperate to project hate, or too lazy to look for themselves?
“My purpose is to show the facts and pose this question "If the Zionist position is so strong, why must they manufacture history to belittle an entire people?" < This is perhaps the most topsy turvy claim made…and one that anyone reading can now see crystal clear that your accusations and question are obviously the fallacies...as the objective physical evidence has proven once AGAIN. The only people who are being “belittled” under that question are your unfounded, irrational charges and insults to the Jews, and by those who are in utter denial of overwhelming objective physical evidence. It is those who wish to negate the existence of another people and their entire history who “manufacture” a collective Arab identity as “Palestinian” existing thousands of years for peoples who rejected such a thing until the Arab nationalistic movement of the 1960s. You must assume that all readers will be too lazy to read references.
Next time you think that by posing so many fallacious claims as taunting charges and then assert because they weren’t addressed in the q, they .prove the person you’ve trolled can’t address them..Don‘t forget that there will always be at least a FEW people who are interested in actually discovering the truth. Truth will out.
That’s *always* going to be your Achilles’ Heel…and honest answers always your enemy. Seek help for your obsessive desire to project the behaviors you openly display without hint of conscience, onto others. Professionals can help if you seek it.
Here is much more of the evidence you claimed I couldn’t “produce”
http://www.imninalu.net/myths-Arabs.htm
See my references here:
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110521103725AA1LFrV
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100303171017AADaIdW
Note that in Roman usage the name Judea applied to the whole country, to all of Israel. In fact, the Province of Judea and the earlier Kingdom of Judea ruled by Herod, a client king of Rome, included Samaria, Galilee, the Golan Heights, and the east bank of the Jordan River. Sometimes, as in several verses of the Christian New Testament, Judea is used in a narrow sense together with Samaria as separate regions. Nevertheless, this was a reflection of Jewish usage, not Roman. Jews sometimes used Judea to translate Judah [Yehudah], the ancient southern kingdom of the Israelites after the split of the monarchy.
　
PalestineThis place name, connected with the Philistine population, is first found in the classical [Greek] sources in Herodotos [5th century BCE]. It was introduced as the official name for the region by the Romans after the events of 132-5 [CE], deliberately counterposing it to the official name Iudaea, traditionally used up to that time, in the setting of a series of repressive actions. As such it is often rejected in Jewish circles who prefer "Land of Israel." Yet another ACTUAL Historian in addition to Thomas McCall, Elsa Laurenzi < also not Jewish btw
The BCE sources were affirmation of the Hellenist connection to the origin of the Philistines…that Aegean seafaring people who occupied five coastal city-states and vanished as a people, long before Christianity began.
The Province of Judea and the earlier Kingdom of Judea ruled by Herod, a client king of Rome, included Samaria, Galilee, the Golan Heights, and the east bank of the Jordan River. Sometimes, as in several verses of the Christian New Testament, Judea is used in a narrow sense together with Samaria as separate regions. But this was a reflection of Jewish usage, not Roman. Jews sometimes used Judea to translate Judah [Yehudah], the ancient southern kingdom of the Israelites after the split of the monarchy.
Here is more to refute the lies with objective evidence:
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_name_origin.php
I have *much* more, but I think I have already made the points.
And because this is already so long, for those of you who want to see those medieval and antique maps he claims doesn’t exist….use the search terms “antique maps of the holy land”, map of Judea and Samaria in the middle ages, “antique map of Judea” “antique map of Samaria”. There are even links where you can purchase maps from the 15th -19th centuries clearly showing those terms he said didn’t exist on maps…but being so old they are a bit pricey..$450 and up. I don’t link them because I’m not trying to sell what they offer…I just told you how you can go find for yourself with a few clicks of a mouse, what he said doesn’t exist.
For him to rationalize his hate, I am sure none of the overwhelming mountains of objective evidence exists.
I pity such overwhelming hate that blinds people to evidence.
Last admonition to the Jew hater: Seek help for your hate. You may then desire to seek peace.
Shalom y’all.

Best of Answers

I've answered many hundreds of questions about Jewish identity with variations of an essay that derived from a lesson plan I'd used long ago with teens. Some of them had many more outside references listed than did others. At some, I used Jewish history sites; others showed references to secular historical evidence, international linguistic scholarly references, and to web sites of different respected Rabbis. At others I detailed the history of the false notion of Jews as a race and used award winning Biology web references.
The photo there is of one of my answers to the question of Jewish identity that someone nominated to Yahoo and Yahoo Answers chose to feature as a Best of Answers. While all the information in it is correct and contains much of the information I provide elsewhere, if *I* were going to choose one of the thousands of times I've answered this question asked on a daily basis, I would have chosen one of the better referenced answers I'd posted many times.

Here is a link to the above question: http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101027162339AAi9CII
Here is a link to another of the many hundreds of times I have answered this question:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgEGzRemtJg1A2CbyhoQKfPty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20111020175125AAigOTe
I might be back later with more.

A Side by Side Analysis Can Reveal Much

What is the difference between “Messianic Judaism”, Judaism and Christianity?
This question has been asked a half dozen times in the past week with variant wording. I will do a little side by side comparison to contrast what some New Testament doctrine adherents call “Messianic Judaism” with the religion of Judaism from the Tanakh and with Christianity based directly on the statements of one who claims to represent "Messianic Jews" on an online forum.
I begin each one with a direct quotation of what a self-proclaimed “Messianic Jew” has explained as their belief in contrast with what he thinks of Christianity. Then, I will preface my own writing with double asterisks ** to give my understanding of the beliefs and practice of Judaism from the eternal Torah (law/teaching) of the covenant of Israel/the Jewish people. I will also often explain how either are similar or differs/contradicts what New Testament adherents believe.

“Messianics observe traditional Jewish holidays such as Purim, Chanukah, etc. Christians do not.”
**The New Testament adherents insert Jesus into holy Jewish observances, thus violating the commanded meanings in the Torah and Tanakh, such as replacing the reason Exodus explicitly states for the Paschal lamb to represent the Hebrews slaughtering and eating the representative of one of the Egyptians false gods(i.e., either lamb of sheep or goat) in their presence without recourse as an act of defiance and allegiance to the God of Israel, to claim Jesus was the Paschal lamb and that it was a sin sacrifice. (the Paschal lamb was never and shall never be a sin sacrifice for the covenant of Israel)
Hanukah is an observance of a victory over forced assimilation by the Syrian/Greeks that sought to impose worship of man gods and adopt Hellenist beliefs such as being born with a sinful nature and a notion of a fiery underworld hell. For the few apostate Jews who have assimilated into the religion of the New Testament replacement theology among their numbers, imposing those beliefs into Chanukah observance negates the very purpose of Hanukah.
Those who call themselves “Messianics” worship Jesus/Yeshuah as a manifestation of their god. The eternal Torah forbids such a notion and the Prophets in the Tanakh condemn a notion of any man as God outright.
--
“Messianics observe the biblical feasts of Vayikra (Leviticus) 23 such as Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement), Rosh HaShanah (Feast of Trumpets), Sukkot (Feast of Booths) and Passover. Christians do not.”

**see above re: Passover and
The ways in which New Testament adherents redefine and negate Biblical precept for each of those holy observances for Israel would take up an individual essay, space won’t permit it here.
Each of those observances in the Tanakh are done to honor the role and purpose of the covenant of Israel as a nation people exclusive to God and obligated to a life that honors this life and rejects obsession with the afterlife and maintains personal accountability to both God , our fellow humans and all living.
Imposing foreign god belief/avodah zarah into the observances commanded in the Torah to honor faith in God exclusively is an egregious violation of those commandments and cannot be called “observant” of the Torah. The adherents of the “New” covenant of the Gospels are not a part of the eternal covenant of Israel so they are not bound by this covenant in the first place. The few apostates of their numbers will be judged by these laws, but for the majority this does not apply.
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“Messianics do not observe Christian holidays that were borrowed from paganism, such as Christmas and Lent or were simply concocted.”
**but they do have the pagan concept of being born with a burden of sin and having a sinful nature that must be reconciled by the death of their savior mangod such as found directly in the widespread ancient religions of the Levant of Mithras, Tammuz and Adonis
They also adhere to the pagan Roman/Greek concept derived from Tartarus of hell ..ruled by a demon deity of the underworld they call Lucifer, also not found in the Torah.
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“Messianics do not use Easter bunnies, Easter eggs, Christmas trees, etc., (which are part of Christian tradition in many parts of the world although they are not part of official Christian theology)”
*** But Easter is still a very important time for them. It is the basis of the doctrine of the NT that his death and resurrection are reliant upon for salvation to its adherents. They do reject many of the ancient pagan fertility symbolic remnants, but because the New Testament doctrine itself reveals Hellenist influence, they're still an influence to New Testament dogma.
TAMMUZ
täˈməz, ancient nature deity worshiped in Babylonia. A god of agriculture and flocks, he personified the creative powers of spring. He was loved by the fertility goddess Ishtar, who, according to one legend, was so grief-stricken at his death that she contrived to enter the underworld to get him back. According to another legend, she killed him and later restored him to life. These legends and his festival, commemorating the yearly death and rebirth of vegetation, corresponded to the festivals of the Phoenician and Greek Adonis and of the Phrygian Attis. The Sumerian name of Tammuz was Dumuzi. In the Bible his disappearance is mourned by the women of Jerusalem (Ezek. 8.14).

Hmm Man/god born of virgin dies and Ishtar resurrects him in the spring...Ishtar ( Easter) spring resurrection...striking isn't it?

Sunrise services in honor of Tammuz and praying for his resurrection is an ancient heathen custom. It is actually described and condemned in the book of Ezekiel.

12. And He said to me, "Have you seen, son of man, what the elders of the house of Israel are doing in the darkness, each one in his paved chambers? For they say, 'The Lord does not see us; the Lord has left the earth.' "
13. And He said to me, "You will yet see again greater abominations that they are doing."
14. And He brought me to the entrance of the gate of the house of the Lord that is to the north, and behold there the women were sitting, weeping for Tammuz.
15. And He said to me, "Have you seen, son of man? You will yet see again greater abominations than these."
16. And He brought me to the inner court of the house of the Lord, and behold, at the entrance of the Temple of the Lord between the porch and the altar, about twenty- five men, their backs to the Temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, and they were prostrating themselves eastward to the sun.
17. And He said to me, "Have you seen, son of man? Was it [too] trivial to the house of Judah to prevent them from performing the abominations that they have done here? For they have [already] filled the land with violence, and repeatedly provoked Me, and behold they send disgrace into their nose.
18. I too, shall act with fury; My eyes will not spare, neither will I have pity, and they will call into My ears with a loud voice, but I shall not listen to them."

This was a warning prior to the destruction of the FIRST Temple. The Second Temple was destroyed just after another man/god was being worshipped in Jerusalem. Coincidence?

Tammuz and Mithras, both sacrificed savior deities, had followers of apostate Jews in the North (Galilee) and areas of Paul's travels. Tammuz and the Romanized version of the Zoroastrian deity Mithras, were both born of virgins (a concept having nothing to do with the Davidic Messiah or Tanakh) and their death was said to have brought their people reconciliation to their sinful natures. Tammuz was said to die and be reborn each spring. Tammuz worship was so widespread and it was condemned in Tanakh. There is still even a Hebrew month named for this pagan man/god despite such Jewish condemnation of his worship. Sir James Frazier's work The Golden Bough is useful to learning about the concept of Savior Kings that was not only widespread in the Middle east but in Europe and helped to aid the rapid spread of Christianity. Noted Oxford scholar and award winning Historian Richard Fletcher's The Barbarian Conversion: From Paganism to Christianity also helps one to understand the development of many beliefs and rituals found in modern Christianity.

Belief in a savior man/god whose blood and death atoned for the sinful nature of his people was common to many in the ancient Levant. Original sin (born with a burden of sin) is foreign to Torah and Judaism.

The name Easter is believed to derive from the name Ishtar, the goddess responsible for the resurrection of Tammuz. The offerings given to Ishtar in gratitude for resurrecting Tammuz who would ensure a good spring for their crops and to Ishtar herself for the fecundity of women, are the source of the Easter Basket and the eggs and bunnies, both ancient symbols of fertility. So there IS a difference between the "messianics" and mainstream Christianity in their rejection of those symbols.

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“Messianics worship on the biblical Sabbath, i.e., Friday evening till Saturday evening, not Sunday. HaShem says the Sabbath is an eternal covenant between Him and the descendants of Israel. (Sh'mot/Exodus 31:16). “

**The house of Israel refers to members of the covenant people of Israel. The covenant of Israel is indeed eternal. The reliance on Jesus as a medium of atonement and salvation for a sinful nature and sins is the doctrine of the “New covenant” or New Testament and contradicts the eternal covenant of Torah.

There is no "Old Testament" meaning old covenant, for the people of the eternal covenant. There is no "New Testament" or replacement covenant. The Jewish people are the people of the eternal covenant
The prophetic vision of the Davidic messiah in the Tanakh speaks of the age when the eternal covenant will no longer be taught to one another when the universal knowledge and understanding of God will encompass the earth. The early church father Tertullian, early in the third century CE named the Christian amended version of the Tanakh the "Old Testament" specifically to designate it as having been superseded and done away with in contrast to the "New", despite the assertion within it's texts dozens of times from Genesis forward that it is an eternal testament (covenant).

Adherents of the religion of their New Covenant (Testament) are not a part of the covenant nation for whom the Torah’s commandments for Israel apply.
God isn’t exclusive to Israel, but there are many commandments that are so in the Torah
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“Messianics cant the Shema, and traditional Jewish blessings that most Christians have never heard of, e.g., the kiddush and the Aaronic benediction“.

** Of course they mimic every portion of Jewish custom and observance in outward appearance, but when you reassign every act to a contradictory meaning and even redefine the holy language of Torah itself, you’re not honoring the Torah and you’re violating that Affirmation of Faith that is made to affirm yourself as a member of the covenant who worship God and God alone to the exclusion of all other entities.

Messianics redefine the word Echad to claim it means “unity” to impose their trinity concept of the nature of God in direct contradiction to this affirmation of faith, rendering it utter blasphemy and one of the most egregious violations and sins that a Jew could commit. Such a behavior actually separates their soul from the Jewish people according to the Torah.

I once saw Perry Stone spend more than half an hour trying to convolute Hebrew grammar to explain that the Hebrew word echad, meaning one, could only *ever* refer to a "compound unity". He ended this by saying that within the Shema is the "proof" that "Yeshua" (Jesus) and his Holy Spirit (Ruach Kodesh) is their "echad" or " tri-unity" of God. The Hebrew in the Torah and how the word echad is used does not support this at all. It is as absurd as saying to an English speaker that the word "one" can only refer to one of a group or cluster and that unless you use a qualifier it does not mean a sole, single unit. One means one. period.

Tell a Hebrew speaking boy who learns to count, "echad, shnayim, shlosha, arba,etc that he's really saying, unity, two, three, and look at the reaction you'll get.

Sometimes they’ll try to justify it by saying they worship Yeshuah as their “Elohim” and claim that the suffix IM denotes the plurality of his nature.

Elohim as a title for God..the "Supreme Deity" over all their idolatrous neighbor's false gods, no more refers to a plurality of their own or a trinity than saying "Supreme Deity" in English refers to many deities.

The word El derives from the Canaanite El or Al that at one time referred to their primary deity's NAME perhaps thousands of years prior to Abraham. By the time of the writing of the Torah, the word EL became the word for deity rather like the English word god means that same thing.. Our English word God has a very similar path to meaning of deity. The ancient Visgoth's, a Germanic people worshipped Gott as their primary deity. Gott became God. In German, the word Gott still means God. When a German today prays to Gott or an English speaking person prays to God we are no more praying to that Visgoth deity than the ancient Hebrews were praying to the Sumerian deity or pantheon of Canaanite deities.
In Hebrew grammar the suffix IM denotes EITHER plurality OR Importance. If one is to determine if a NOUN is a singular or plural with the suffix IM, the use in the Torah shows us whether or not it is a singular noun or a plural noun..meaning if it refers to more than one thing or just one thing. There are other Hebrew words that end in IM when it does not refer to a plurality..chayim ..life, for instance.

Hebrew grammar is odd in that a suffix denoting plurality may also be used to impart great importance to the noun it is placed upon.
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“Messianics cant the Torah portion in Hebrew at worship services.”

***I’d be curious to see how their evangelical Hebrew Christian clergy translate it for their overwhelmingly Christian audience who knows little Hebrew since the Torah contradicts their New Testament.
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“Messianic preaching is mainly from the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh), although references to the B'rit Chadasha are common.’
**This would be surprising if it’s “mainly” from the Tanakh as their Statements of Faith below are primarily found in the New Testament they’ve renamed in Hebrew to make it sound Jewish. It is also extremely rare that they refer to the Tanakh to explain their doctrine in Y/A either, except to note how Jesus/Yeshua changed things.

By the logic of one who claims that there is a “New” covenant ( their renamed in Hebrew New Testament of B’rit Chadasha) why are they not following the Quran? And then in turn..why are they not following the Book of Mormon? If Israel's *eternal* covenant with God can be "superceded" why can't yours?

The people of the eternal covenant of Israel have no Holy Scriptures named “Old Testament or New Testament” . Using the Hebrew translation for New Testament doesn’t make that Bible a Jewish Bible, just as Israeli Christians praying to Jesus in Hebrew doesn’t morph them into Israeli Jews.

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“Messianic Judaism emphasizes the special relationship between G-d and the Jewish people, whereas Protestantism and Catholicism hardly ever mention it.”
This is as deceptive as everything else they've said.  They claim that the world's believing Jews deserve hell and eternal torture because we REFUSE to give up our special relationship with G-d to deny what God told all Israel at Sinai! They are forever telling us that unless we come to rely on Jesus for atonement that we will go to their hell.  That is clearly not honoring the relationship that believing Jews have with God.  IF they emphasized the relationship between God and Israel they would not be missionizing to us to LEAVE it.  They claim that they have exclusive blessing from "Yeshua" whom they worship as a god and call the god of Israel in utter blasphemy rather than even respect the fact that God has a relationship with the Jewish people. But then, they also call themselves the "real" Jewish people, too.  Just like other of their NT groups that claim Jewish identity while having no relation..like the Black Hebrew Israelites, the Covenant, Sword and Arm of the Lord white supremacisst group, the "Elohim City" group and the Branch Davidian's , the Seventh Day Adventist offshoot that considers ITSELF the "real Messsianic" Jews, so they even have competition among other New Testament adherent/Christian groups.
Judaism emphasizes the direct relationship between God and humanity and the role of Israel as a covenant nation dedicated to God exclusively to demonstrate living this path as a light unto the nations. Torah teaches that we are always directly accountable to one another and directly to God.

The New Testament focuses on teaching that one must accept on faith belief that Jesus death and blood "reconcile" a sinful nature (being born with a burden of sin is also foreign to Torah) and then awareness of God will change their behavior. Judaism teaches us that it is how we live and interact with one another that opens us up to the awareness and direct connection to the Divine. For many people, it appears to be a slow process of growth into an awareness of our connection to God, rather than some kind of overwhelming divine revelatory moment.

Judaism is a path of LIVING and honoring this life God gave us and the lives that come after us while we build on the wisdom of those who came before us. I think that was part of the hard lesson of coming out of slavery from Egypt. The bonds of idolatry and superstition that enslaved the mind were broken when Israel came to the recognition that all those man/gods and animal gods were powerless over this life. It wasn't only deliverance from physical bondage that is told about at Passover, but the deliverance for each generation when we remember of the kind of enslavement that focusing on concern for another world than this one is made priority.

Judaism is a world-affirming, not world-denying faith. We use the gifts and blessings we have in this world to make it better for ourselves, for our families and for the rest of the world.
The Christian concept that before Jesus, God was exclusively for the Jews,, has ALWAYS been foreign to Jewish belief. The book of Kings records Gentiles worshipping at the Temple , Torah teaches that every human can directly connect to God and the righteous of all nations are blessed. It is Christianity that has introduced dogma that one must be Christian to connect to God, not vice versa.

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“Messianic Judaism emphasizes Jewish traditions that do not conflict with the Bible, whereas Protestantism and Catholicism totally ignore those traditions.”

**This is simply so wrong in light of all the evidence I’ve presented thus far. I can’t find one practice of so called “Messianic Judaism” that does not utterly corrupt the very core of the covenant of faith of Klal Yisrael. Worship of or through a Jew is the most egregious violation of Torah to do! If you can find a Statement of Belief of a “Messianic Judaism” web site that does not present Jesus as an aspect of the Divine, please show me.
Actually, they don't emphasize Jewish tradition, they pervert Jewish traditions that are from the Jewish Bible.  Every custom and observance Torah commands to honor Israel as a covenant nation that worships only our incorporeal Creator, they impose idolatrous Jesus worship upon, in complete blasphemy.  Thus when they entice any actual Jew to do such a thing, they are leading that Jew to commit an act that God says in the Torah separates that Jew from their people, their purpose, and from God unless they repent and return.  A very serious sin.
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“Messianic Judaism asserts that the Torah (literally, "teaching") is still in effect (as modified by Yeshua). Christianity claims that once Jesus "fulfilled the Law" it no longer applies.”

** Ah HA! This is a smoking gun to show it isn’t “Judaism” at ALL!   the "as modified by Yeshua) shows how they dishonor Torah that God commands cannot be changed.   The Jewish people and believers in the religion of Judaism follow what we believe God said about the Torah. NO one can alter even the tiniest portion of Torah..There you have it ADMISSION that they believe that “Yeshua” had the authority to usurp God’s eternal commandment. ( oh wait..that user has said more than once they believe Yeshua to be their god, showing it is idolatry..that’s how they justify this and their Statements of Faith show they believe he‘s God so apparently they believe God changed his mind those more than dozen times He said ETERNAL before that)
The Jewish people, those who belong to and adhere to the covenant of Torah know that God is the same incorporeal ONE who states does NOT become a man in the Torah and whose Torah does not change.
While the Christian is free to believe God lied to all Israel, the Jew is not.

Jews may argue and debate over how to apply the eternal Torah in our lives throughout the world and changing times..but we ALL agree the Torah does not and cannot change or be MODIFIED.
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“Messianic Jews bar-mitzvah their sons and bat-mitzvah their daughters. Christians don't.”

**THIS reflects that the writer has no clue what bar mitzvah and bat mitzvah means and since they are not of the eternal covenant..enacting a meaningless ceremony does NOT make their children sons and daughters of the covenant.
That sentence reads as if it is something that they must do to a Jewish child for them to become a bar or bat mitzvah.
A Jew becomes a bar or bat mitzvah upon attaining the age they become responsible for this…whether or not they ever have any ceremony.

The parent can't make the son or daughter a bar or bat mitzvah, but if the child was born to an apostate Jew, the child isn't held as guilty as the parent...for the act of the parent making the child sin in idolatry and enact a meaningless ceremony to claim identity in a covenant they disrespect. Few are actual Jews, most are gentile parents whose gentile childen enact mock ceremonies and impose forbidden Jesus worship upon one claiming to dedicate the child to the covenant of Israel, a very different covenant of faith than the New Testament one.
 The act of becoming a Bar Mitzvah – or Bat Mitzvah (translated as “son or daughter of the commandment(s)” – raises a Jewish child to the status of adult in the religious community. It marks the beginning of many obligations and privileges.

For a Jewish boy this is age 13, for a Jewish girl this is age 12. One cannot be dedicated to two CONFLICTING covenants of faith.
Does the evangelical Hebrew Christian realize what harsh feelings of conflicted fear and loathing they are stirring up within their very own children in teaching them a false identity and teaching that believing Jews who adhere to the nearly 4000 year old eternal covenant who do not and will never “accept Yeshuah” "hate them for their beliefs"? The claim that Jews hate others for their beliefs fuels centuries of antisemitism. To be raised this way is not to become a bar or bat mitzvah. This teaches those children to mistrust Jews and believe that the very people they identify with in name, reject them as their own out of hate! These young people then go on to ally themselves with evangelical Christians (because their beliefs are identical) while cloaking their dogma in Jewish custom and practice that is often more outwardly Jewish “looking” than that of modern Orthodox Jews! They also assign meaning to deeply reverent Jewish customs such as the calling to Torah of the Bar and Bat Mitzvah, which were never intended and usually offensive or contradictory to the aspect of faith the custom is intended to honor.
The customs and rituals of Jewish people around the world developed to honor the laws of Torah and teach each generation about honoring our eternal covenant and faith of Judaism. To see these customs and rituals used to honor a replacement theology is extremely disturbing to the believing Jew for whom these things have deep spiritual significance.
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“A Jewish person who converts to Protestantism is referred to as a Hebrew Christian, not a Messianic Jew. “
**This statement appears to be to willfully confuse. Compare and contrast the statements of beliefs of all the largest “Messianic Jewish” organizations you can find with Protestant Christianity. The only difference I see is Hebraicised terminology.

The whole movement called itself Hebrew Christian until 1967.
Yes, honest Jews who find that their faith calling is to follow the doctrine of the New Testament, if they convert to a belief fitting the statements of faith of Protestant Christianity will honestly call themselves Christians.
Hebrew Christians is a more honest terminology than “Messianic Jew” because ALL of Judaism remains messianic in nature. The concepts are simply contradictory.

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“Messianic Judaism and Protestantism teach the biblical doctrine that salvation is a free gift from G-d, by faith in Yeshua.”

**And they teach that God is exclusive to those who worship Jesus.
Torah, on the other hand shows from Genesis forward that God has always been and shall forever remain directly accessible and that repentance, and a path of righteousness is honored by God for all people, Jew and Gentile.
The Christian concept that before Jesus, God was exclusively for the Jews,, has ALWAYS been foreign to Jewish belief. The book of Kings records Gentiles worshipping at the Temple , Torah teaches that every human can directly connect to God and the righteous of all nations are blessed. It is Christianity that has introduced dogma that one must be Christian to connect to God, not vice versa.

Note this person is actually admitting the shared core faith of Protestant Christianity and their "Messianic Judaism" that is Hebraicised New Testament dogma. They know very well that the doctrine of Torah and Judaism is contradictory to it.
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“Messianics do not need to be proselytized into Christianity. We already know who Messiah is and what he did to provide salvation for his people.”

**Huh?? The whole movement is evangelical. MILLIONS of dollars a year are spent evangelizing to Jews. TV programs, books, tapes, lectures. It is now big business, too. More than a billion dollars in the past decade has been spent in efforts to convince people they can claim Jewish identity while adhering to a faith dogma whose beliefs and practices are prohibited by the laws of Judaism from the Torah and would render any Jew who professes them to be apostate to the Jewish people.

However, they’re attracting primarily other Christians to join them over Jews, because after all, for a great many who already adhere to their doctrines of belief that match the Baptist and other Protestant denominations, they don't have to change anything at ALL about WHAT they believe, just change how they practice it. Just change the terms they're already familiar with to Hebrew terms, impose those beliefs into Jewish holy observances and disregard the purpose and reasons the Torah demands that Jews observe those holidays and customs and call it "Torah observant". Christians don’t have to give up their beliefs in any way to join, they just add some nifty new holidays, words, songs, dances and get to play dress up and call themselves “completed Jews” while completely disrespecting the laws of Judaism, often in utter ignorance of this fact.

Torah has never taught that salvation was exclusive to the Jewish people. God is not exclusive to the Jews. God commands the Jews to be exclusive to God. Restating Torah precept, both Isaiah and Jeremiah affirm that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. Micah sums up Torah very well, "What Does the Lord Require of You? To act Justly and to Love Mercy and to Walk Humbly With Your God"

There are several Christian TV networks and many televangelists who would disagree that Christians don't "need" proselytizing..their paychecks depend on it.
They depend upon people being ignorant of Jewish law and upon people relying on the doctrine of another religion to Reinterpret and impose views upon it in contradiction TO Judaism. The New Testament has been since it's introduction..a replacement theology. It isn't ever going to be Judaism.


EDIT: I wish to make it clear that the quotations I gave that represent the "Messianic", are a copy-paste from a writing that has been repeatedly posted by one claiming to represent Messianic Judaism. I did *not* fabricate those quotes to "make Messianic Jews look bad" as one claiming to be from Israel commented to me. I did not omit one word, nor did I alter the order or add a thing to the quotes. Because I am *not* out to try to embarrass people, I did not put their user name.

When I say that the "Messianic" Hebrew Christian evangelist appeals primarily to their own co-religionists (Christians) who are ignorant of Judaism and Tanakh, that doesn't imply I think they're stupid people at all. It is apparent that they must appeal to people whose knowledge of Torah and Judaism is either ABSENT or from their New Testament exclusively. I believe that people can educate themselves and no longer be ignorant. If I didn't believe that ignorance was able to be remedied, I wouldn't be wasting my time with any of these things I share.

In fact, something that many of them did NOT account for is that by appealing to the sensibilities of Judaism and claiming to be Torah observant, many of their numbers DO begin to actually study Torah and the rest of Tanakh in context and discover these things on their own. They speak of Jews "persecuting" them for their belief in Jesus when Jews don't care if they believe in Jesus..we care they call it Judaism in falsehood.

I also believe that it took a great amount of intelligence to devise convincing deceptions that have created dissention between Jews and Christians and eroded more than a generation of good-faith efforts of genuine dialog between religions and peoples. They're not stupid people who promote this. Make no mistake..I've never thought that for a moment.

Where does this sense of Entitlement to negate the right of Jews to Jewish law lead next?

After reading a few recent answers on a popular online q and a forum this week, I’ve a few questions of my own. I will write about them here because these are the kind of questions that I know from experience would have Jew haters swarming them with reports to hide them and would see all correct Jewish answers from all over the world with massive numbers of thumbs downs for that same purpose. It has been so disturbing to see that Answers forum being rendered ineffective for people to obtain accurate information about Judaism and to see it being used daily (with apparently the q and a forum condoning much of it) used as a platform to propagandize hatred to Jews by some willful misinformation (blatant lies)

The following things run through my mind, and especially after reading answers from a few who claimed to be actual Christian clergy. I hope very much that they also lied about that. I know they lied egregiously about Judaism and history.

I often wonder how many Christians believe that they have entitlement to use their New Testament to redefine the laws of all other people? Is it considered ethical in Christianity to disrespect the laws of another religion and claim that the other people do not have a right to their own laws?
Do Christians believe that the world's Jewish people do not have a right to Jewish law that Jews have always and still believe is eternal? Do Christians believe that if Jews state that worship of anything other than God violates it we are "persecuting" those who hold to those other beliefs?

Then tell me why statements such as the following remain unchallenged or uncorrected by so MANY other Christians?

"So to answer your question, yes, of course Messianic Jews believe in Christ, and are therefore part of Christendom---but that in no way negates nor abrogates the fact that those who were a part of the house of Israel (I.E. were Jews) continue to be a part of the house of Israel after coming to faith in Jesus Christ. Today, Messianic Jews (as well as other Jews who believe in Jesus) are simply standing their ground and refusing to allow their detractors to define who they are FOR them---they are refusing to allow themselves to be disenfranchised and run out of the Jewish community---and more power to them for doing so!"
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It isn’t up to Jews to determine who or what defines a Christian. It isn’t up to Jews to define the laws of other religions or other peoples. However, I often see Christians claiming with authoritative speech that they support people who wish to negate or redefine Jewish law in opposition to it.
First of all, what determines identity as the "house of Israel" the Jewish people, is Jewish law.
If or when a Jew adopts a belief in another entity other than the incorporeal, indivisible singular God/Creator of the Torah, according to unalterable Jewish law recognized by every movement of Judaism across the world and for more than 3500 years, that renders that Jew as apostate and estranged from membership in the covenant nation people Israel (the Jewish people) unless they repent and return.

That paragraph up there I quoted reflects what Jews the world over are experiencing from some evangelical Christians who demand and insist that Jews accept as Judaism, aspects of dogma that God directly prohibits FOR the Jewish people. When Jews say this we aren’t running anyone out of the community. A Jew who has chosen to worship Jesus left Judaism of their own free will. Judaism has never permitted worship of anything other than God and never will. People can freely join or leave Klal Yisrael (the community of Israel)To add insult, as that paragraph indicates, they're telling others that Jews are hateful to apostates because we refuse to permit forms of worship that are forbidden by unalterable, eternal law from the Holy Scriptures of Judaism, the Torah. Not to mention that the apostates among them worldwide number about fifty thousand out of the approximately 400,000 to 500,000 Gentiles call themselves “messianic Jews”. It is only because of massive media and evangelical campaigns that such a small group has so much attention and because of their outspoken antisemitic claims while claiming to be the “real” Israel and “real” Jews.

Why is this unchallenged by Christians when statements like this are said daily and now taught with evangelical campaigns on television and at churches? Don't Christians also follow the commandment,"You shall not bear false witness"?
Why are Christians falling for this new form of antisemitism from people who claim to love Jews while they simultaneously demonize Jews for simply speaking to the truth of what Judaism has always been about?

I quoted a small portion of a much longer answer that was really so over the top with lies about Judaism I think I’ll share it here to show just how desperate and how intense the hatred in this individual must be. If someone spends a great amount of time and effort to fabricate some really absurd lies about another, you know they’re not doing it out of love.

NOTE: I will comment at the < mark from time to time below: * Now, read on to show some real “Christian love” for Jews from that same individual: “This issue gets confounded by a few false premises that are vocally promoted by some Jews today. The first is the silly notion that being Jewish is merely a matter of religious belief. This idea is a ludocrous farce because the original Jews were the physical descendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. While the scriptures plainly teach that God's covenant was established with Abraham and "in Isaac shall thy seed be called", and while it used to be universally recognized that Jacob (Israel) had twelve sons, whose descendents were the ancestors of the Jewish people, we're being told today that any reference to Jewish peoplehood constitutes adhering to "Nazi propaganda" and saying that Jews are a "race".” < What a way to try to pervert what Torah says and Jews have explained. NO, Jews say we are a *people*, and those of Abraham’s “seed” who passed along the covenant were only those who accepted the covenant. Not all his descendents according to the Torah were the Jewish people. Only his descendents through Sarah. It is a non-Jewish and Nazi propaganda notion of Jewish identity being based on "blood" or "race" rather than determined by law. This particular person has had this explained in detail previously, too. Not all Jews follow Judaism or are all Jews “good Jews” but if they follow another religion or god they’re definitely no longer being Jewish, and more importantly, they have estranged themselves by their own free will according to God's commandments in the Torah.

“Obviously, there is no Jewish race, but there IS such a thing as Jewish peoplehood. Others can JOIN them (I.E. convert and become Jews), but in doing so, they are becoming an entire part of the Jewish people, not just adopting a new religion.” < They key word there where he self-contradicts is *not just adopting a new religion* he actually admits despite himself they must adopt the religion to convert. To JOIN they MUST adopt the “new religion” and that’s been a part of the process of BECOMING a member of the Jewish people since the time of Abraham. You can't convert to Judaism if you believe in other deities. You can't convert to Judaism if you don't make affirmation of faith in God to the exclusion of anything else and the convert affirms to uphold Torah.

“Besides, the entire line of thinking that being a Jew is merely a matter of religious belief is a nonsensical yarn from git-go. Even FULL-BLOWN ATHEISTS can be considered Jews (so much for it just being a matter of religious belief)! “ < Jewish identity is based on Jewish law. Jews don’t say that it is “merely a matter of religious belief” to be considered a member of the Jewish people. We say Jewish identity is based on Jewish law that God gave us. JUDAISM..the religion, IS a belief and the laws DEFINE that belief and the membership criteria of who and what is permissible for the Jewish people. An Atheist can’t CONVERT to BECOME a Jew since affirmation in the faith of Judaism is required to convert *just* as this preacher even admitted a couple of sentences earlier. His lack of consistency rears its head again.

 “There is even one major, recognzied, so-called branch of Judaism that won't even affirm for sure that there is a God in Heaven--and they focus almost ENTIRELY on Jewish peoplehood! There are totally secular Jews, and Jews whose defiance of the Torah is absolutlely shocking." <  He is histrionic in overstating the numbers and significance and calls a controversial small group of "Humanistic" Jews a "major branch" of Judaism. Why such deception?  Their focus is upon living the ethical precepts of Torah.  That is not nearly as defiant of Torah as worshipping a man as God incarnate in violation of the affirmation of faith , or the abomination of human sacrifice forbidden and condemned many times in Tanakh in the harshest of terms. Again, if they were born members and are simply following ethical precepts of Torah, they are sinning in not worshipping God, but they are still fulfilling many Torah obligations to strive to righteousness, justice and mercy. A secular Jew has not committed idolatry. Many non Jews fail to grasp the significance of the strict obligation placed upon a Jew to NEVER worship anything other than God.

"There are Jews who practice witchcraft ("Jewitches"), homosexuality, even Buddism (Jew-Bu's), yet their Jewish status isn't even questioned.” < He knows this is a lie.  The Torah says no other gods, it doesn't name every false god out there. This preacher knows that Jews have told him this claim was a lie every time he'd said it formore than a year.  I note he also slips the sin of homosexuality in there among belief systems as if it is the same thing as the idolatry of  worshipping a Buddist goddess or Jesus or a Wiccan goddess.  Homosexuality is a sin in the Torah but it isn't one that separates the Jew from his people as God commands foreign worship does.


“Some Jews pick and choose which commandments from God they find personally "meaningful"--and flatly reject the rest--yet they are considered Jews.” < Isn’t this interesting, someone who wants Jews to IGNORE the core commandments from God in the Torah for Jews  complaining about cherry picking Jews! He's clearly not consistent especially when he insists upon ignoring direct commandments from God  for Jews nor does he observe concern over ",Do not bear false withess!

“But you let a God-fearing, Torah-observant son of Israel--circumcised on the eighth day, Bar Mitzvah'ed, and reared on synagogue life study the evidence and reach the conclusion that Jesus is the Messiah, and Presto-Chango, merely for this belief alone, he has supposedly lost his Jewish status and has morphed into a gentile. Could a bigger bunch of hogwash possibly exist? “<  First of all, I’ve never met or seen such a person who knew Judaism and followed it as a "God fearing, Torah observant" Jew who would decide that everything about it was wrong and then leave it for another religion. On the remote possibility that such a person did exist who would leave worship of God to worship Jesus, if they were an honest person they would certainly know that worship of Jesus is not Judaism.  His notion of a God fearing Torah observant person is someone who believes God lied to every man, woman and child at Sinai who affirmed God is ONE.  God told all Israel that God does not become a man.  The prophets all echoed that and said that no man becomes a god, either.  Yet, the core of Christian dogma, the New Testament, is that God either created a demigod through impregnating a human, OR became incarnate "in the flesh". There is no more egregious way to violate Torah POSSIBLE than to worship a man as a god or believe God became a man.

That is a sin that separates a Jew from God and from the purpose of the covenant of Israel.
Honest converts to Christianity from Judaism would not claim he’s still following Judaism. IF a previously Torah observant Jew were to decide to follow Jesus and rely on his sacrifice for atonement of sin rather than follow the Torah's and Judaism's precepts regarding these things that person would certainly know enough to realize he can’t follow contradictory belief systems. God calls human sacrifice an abomination and since we know that if someone "believes Torah" they would not believe in a human as a deity. Therefore, Jesus sacrifice was a human sacrifice, an abomination. Deicide is not possible since God does not die, God is not incarnate TO die.
Anyone actually raised to know a whit about Judaism who would reject it for Christianity would hopefully be a person  HONEST to remember that God declared human sacririce is an abomination for Jews, and know that worship of a Jew or through a Jew is an egregious violation of Torah to do based on even a rudimentary knowledge of Torah.

“And what's even more laughable (and so ridiculous that it leaves one reeling) is when you realize that JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF was a JEW! He never lost HIS Jewish status."  < Who knows? Nothing was written about him until more than a generation after his death. If Jesus was not a Jew he couldn’t have even been a messiah potential. That he finds his extreme perversions of what he's read from other Jewish posters,(Rabbis included) and his misrepresentations of Jewish law and history enough to make him “reel” in laughter, is revealing of the glee he takes in trying to create hatred and animosity to Jews by bearing false witness. I don’t want to sidetrack here so I’ll get back to addressing his absurd perversions of Judaism and history..

“In fact, the entire early Christian movement was simply an outgrowth of Judaism. The historical reality is that Jesus, the original apostles, and the entire original church were all Jewish. There were literally THOUSANDS of Jews who believed in Jesus, they were a part of the Jewish community, and they didn't somehow "stop being Jews" when they recognized Jesus as the Messiah."  < Hmm..how is it that somehow these “thousands” of Jews never wrote down anything during Jesus’ lifetime about him? We’ve got librarires full of Jewish writings contemporary to Jesus lifetime. Historical record indicates that rather than an outgrowth of Judaism it was an attempt of the colonizers and conquerors to assimilate Judaism into their Empire.


“This is the reason why the Jews lost the Second Jewish Revolt---Rabbi Akivah tried to acclaim Simon Bar Kokhba as the Messiah--which caused all of the Jews who believed in Jesus to have to step down rather than march under the banner of a false messiah. Rather than placing the blame on Rabbi Akivah for proclaiming a false messiah or on Bar Kokhba for BEING a false messiah, they blamed the Jews who believe in Jesus!!!! It was only after this point that this foolishness of trying to somehow renounce the Jewish status of believers in Jesus got started. It continues to this day“. <  This is an extremely absurd and bizarre attempt to pervert history. Christians had refused to ally themselves with the Jews against Roman persecution long before the Bar Kochba Revolt and were already considered a separate religion group by both Jews and Romans before this time.

BEFORE the Bar Kochba revolt and before Rabbi Akivah ..Rome had already considered Christians a separate group because the early Christians petitioned the Emperor to do just that, recognize that they were not Jews.  The objective historical evidence for this fact is that  the emperor Nerva (96-98 C.E.) freed the Christians from paying the Fiscus Judaicus, the Jewish capitation tax decreed as a punishment for the revolt of 66-73 C.E.   The tax was placed upon anyone who was said to be "living a Jewish life".

Clearly, the Romans already regarded the Christians as a separate religion group prior to this time. The Temple treasury was raided in 66CE by the Roman governor of Judea, Florius and a massacre of Jews in Jerusalem by the Romans took place.

The early Christians did not take part in the FIRST revolt triggered by this massacre. THEY separated from the customs, beliefs and from the Jewish people themselves by this time and the Romans recognized and rewarded this!

Christianity has never been a unified belief, from the earliest days of the Didache (instructions to the apostles on how to conduct church affairs) there were conflicts on how much Judaic influence should remain (was Jesus a god or not?) and it was often a very nasty affair. The Gnostics were largely killed off by their fellow Christians, but some Gnostic aspects do remain. A study of the Nag Hammadi library (translations from the Coptic are online) can help you discern this. Christianity really has little to do with Judaism. It's a mixture of Roman and Greek mystery religions and focuses on death with Hebrew names and mistranslated texts.
Things that I once thought must have been fabricated outright I later discovered were beliefs of the ancient Greeks and Romans. This was the longstanding battle for souls going on..the Hellenized Jews, those who had become apostate to Judaism, desired to entice other Jews to worship as the Greeks that they believed superior in philosophy and knowledge, so they created texts that tried to say..see this is what it was supposed to have been all along. However, reality was that those beliefs were identical to the beliefs and practices that the Torah demonized and prohibited for Jews.
Once one begins an in-depth study of the religious practices and beliefs of all the peoples surrounding the Jews in the centuries just preceding the beginning of Christianity, one can see these developments take place. It was a concerted effort to do away with Israel and Judaism.

A large percentage of the early church fathers who became martyrs did so at the hands of their co-religionists of competing sects of Christianity when Christianity was not so clearly defined as a tool of the Roman empire.

Any entity that would threaten Roman authority would be persecuted by the Romans. Perhaps the earliest Christians (a band of followers of a messiah hopeful would threaten Roman rule, since the prophetic vision of Judaism of "the messiah" is of a RULER, a king, who breaks the yolk of political oppression and persecution for all and brings about universal brotherhood, peace and knowledge of God) would most certainly have been a threat. But once the doctrine of the New Testament gelled, that changed the Tanakh concept of messiah meaning an anointed king, to mean a sacrifice for sin and a "kingdom" not of this world, this had effectively changed the Christians from being enemies of Rome to tools of Rome.

Thus began the conversion of the Romans!

Emperor Hadrian later attempted to wipe out Judaism after Jews revolted against the previous Emperor, Trajan. He built a Roman temple to Jupiter on top of the ruins of the old Jewish temple in Jerusalem, which had been destroyed in 70 CE, and is said to have burnt the Torah on top of the Temple Mount in 135 CE .
He then renamed Judea, Palestina, a Latinized version of the name of the Philistines, to insult the Jews and eliminate the history of Jewish presence.

The early followers of Jesus who had been awaiting his reincarnation separated themselves publicly from the Jews once again in the time of the 2nd revolt, and once again refused to ally themselves with the Jews and allied themselves to the Romans. This time instead of simply passively ignoring the plight of the Jewish people, early Christians took up arms with Romans against the Jews. This led to another messiah hopeful, Simeon Bar Kochba to view them as the enemies of Israel, thus, after the defeat of the Jews and the murder of Bar Kochba, the Chistians were not expelled along with the Jews. Rome rewarded them a SECOND time for their refusal to be allied to the Jews.
Simeon Bar Kochba's revolt that saw to the Christians allying themselves in arms to murder Jews, was a generation AFTER they had successfully petitioned Rome to be recognized as NOT being Jews, because they did not live a Jewish life.

After Constantine - First Christian Emperor of Rome (285-337 CE) the Roman empire was Christian.


That poster knew all of this *before* he concocted his revision of the history. I know he knew this because he’d read these things in answers I’d written before and I'd previously pointed out to him when he tried to claim that both the Roman expulsion and the Holocaust were punishment from God for “rejecting” Jesus.

How’s that for love, eh?

If these perversions are the kinds of things that are becoming commonplace in churches is another Holocaust soon to follow?

I did not alter any portion of the other person's words.

Those who hate Jews don't want you to read this

The question asked Why are Jews being accused of hate

and the additional details said:
when we state that "Messianic Jews" are not practicing Judaism?

My answer:

Two things that would become glaringly apparent to anyone who peruses the Y/A R&S section for questions asking about Judaism.

1) It is a rare thing when a question is asked about Jewish belief that there are not answers that appear from people who hold to beliefs that are utterly contradictory to Judaism (New Testament doctrine) and that violate the most basic core precepts of Torah, yet claim they are Torah observant.

2) These accusations of Jews hating people for belief in Jesus are antisemitic attacks on Jews. That is a fact. Antisemitism is hatred of the Jewish people. One does not lie about Jews, Judaism and falsely accuse Jews unless they hate them. It makes no difference if they're calling themselves the "real" Jews, that's a common ploy. The people at "Elohim City" in Arkansas also considered themselves the real covenant people of Israel. So do the Covenant Sword and Arm of the Lord groups. All have in common their desire to take on the identity of the Jews, incite hatred to the Jews and do away with us. Unfortunately the "Messianic Jews" have somehow fooled many good hearted people that they have a right to do this, whereas the other groups who engage in this behavior are rightly identified as hate groups. When Jews declare in all honesty that Christian doctrine is not Judaism, those are not attacks to the right of people to believe in the New Testament that tells them they must worship to or through Jesus or consider his crucifixion a sacrifice to atone for their sins.

The *first* time I asked for an example of the hate Jews are supposed to be displaying in Y/A to Christians, I was accused of speaking in hate for stating that belief in Jesus was not Torah observant! If that is the logic of that accusation, then there is no way to avoid that accusation as believing Jews will ALWAYS have to speak to the truth of the fact that the eternal covenant forbids worship of or through a human and that God does not become a man. Believing Jews do not believe God lied to us in the Torah. If speaking to the truth of Judaism is hateful to you, then don’t believe in Judaism.
 Find another path. Just don’t project hatreds onto a path that teaches us that all humans are worthy of God’s love and all able to directly connect to God and our fellow man in honesty and then expect anyone honest to have a whit of respect for you. 

It is not hate to say that Christian doctrine ( the New Testament ) is not Judaism.

If a Christian were to declare in all honesty that worship of the Devil is not Christianity, is it not the same logic ( actually LACK of logic ) to say that the Christian is displaying "hate" to the Devil worshipper who insists he is an observant Christian?
 The Devil worshipper may well have written or read a document of his particular religion that tells him that he is the real Christian because Jesus is really the Devil and therefore, anything that the Christian religion says is irrelevant and they no longer have a right to define themselves. Or at least that's what they claim, since the former Christian religion was "done away with".

So, who would be the one displaying hatred in that situation. The Christian who spoke out in truth that worship of the Devil can never be considered following their New Testament, and who says it is utterly offensive to call Jesus a devil? Or in this hypothetical nonsense, the Devil worshipper who is perverting every aspect of Christian faith and hijacking the identity of the Christians while lying about them?

Christianity isn't Judaism. The New Testament doctrine is not and shall never be a form of Judaism.


Now look at this convoluted "logic":

"We are told that Christians don't get to define what Judaism is and who is or is not a Jew but when you tell us that Messianics are Christians or that belief in Jesus makes you a Christian you are doing the same thing in reverse."
 Jews have  repeatedly said on questions that poster appeared on that it isn’t up to Jews to give them a name but they cannot hijack the name of Judaism, and we have no other name by which to refer to one whose spirituality, religious tenets and doctrine are from the books of the Christian Bible, their Old and New Testaments. Those texts have never been a part of Judaism. We repeat these truths until the cows come home and they’re ignored and then the attack to sidetrack soon follows..yup, there it is:

"You want us to treat you with respect but you are unwilling to reciprocate."  (user name removed here)
 Excuse me? And when or where have any Jewish users been disrespectful to anyone who was behaving with a modicum of respect to us?  Identity theft and utter falsification of the doctrine, tenets and beliefs of Judaism in a question and answer forum, false personal accusations, and other antisemitic attacks are not something that should be respected by ANY decent human being, Jew or Gentile.


The *last* time I asked for an example of the hate you accuse, the only response was for one known for antisemitic postings of their own to take an out of context quote from another Jewish user here about how Christian doctrine does not apply to Judaism and then claim it was hate against Christians! Jews teaching what is and is not Judaism does not define hate to another for their choice to believe in whomever or what ever they choose. 
By *that* logic, if a Christian were to say that worship of Vishnu is not a part of Christianity, they are displaying hate against the Hindu.  it wouldn't be accepted if that were presented, yet there are several on this forum who try to use that bizarro pretzel logic to claim Jews display hatred to Christians when we honestly say that Christianity is incompatible with Judaism and Jesus worship is a severe violation of Torah.

What I do see is that every time Jews speak out to correct someone who has said in utter falsehood that any form of worship to or through another human being could be compatible with Torah observant Judaism is that the Torah reasons given for this obvious statement are ignored and false ad hominem and strawman fallacy, and every other form of fallacious debate technique imaginable are given with these horrible accusations that Jews in Y/A are speaking out in hate to Christians. This is done for no other purpose than to create antisemitism. They continue it because it's working as the answers that appear alongside them to agree and further demonize illustrate.



It is a Torah obligation to Jews to speak out against anyone bearing false witness against Jews, Judaism and hijacking our very identity. Jews simply have no other name to give to a group whose tenets of faith are found in the New Testament, utterly contradict Torah in their assigning of the ability of a human to pardon sin, to be a sacrifice for sin and other violations of direct commandments. If they do not wish to be called Christian, that's not a Jewish issue. It IS a Jewish issue when they insist on hijacking Jewish identity.



Every branch of Judaism on every continent speaks in unison on this issue.
 This isn't a schism within Judaism.
 The only good thing to have come about this attack on Judaism in the 40 years since it first began is that it has actually brought the various movements together in understanding that we are much closer alike in our beliefs and understanding and that it is more a difference of how we choose to observe and honor what the Torah teaches us than what we read in the Torah.



This is why it has confused and often angered the Messianics so much and why they sometimes try to divide Jews here in pitting Orthodox vs Reform or Conservative...but you will note that Jews from Europe, Africa, North America, South America and the Middle East, from Orthodox, Reform, Reconstructionist and Conservative appear regularly in full agreement over this issue.


 I'm connected to nearly a 100 Jews from all over the world and not once have I seen any of them do what has been accused here.

Yes, we do reach out to our fellow Jews across the world. We have all said that teshuvah, repentance and return as taught in Torah are always open and available to any apostate who wish to return. King Solomon even displayed his change of heart in the last chapters of Ecclesiastes upon his return from his apostacy of following false gods and witchcraft.



And I also connect to and respect Christians of integrity who live as shining examples of their faith in treating their fellow Yahoo users with respect.



I shall also continue to speak out against bigotry and misrepresentation when I see it. I am here in Y/A to learn and to help others learn what I know, and that includes to speak out against willful misrepresentation of my religion and other Jews when I see it.
==================================================

My answer ended above that line..now I add these comments regarding that incident.
The question was asked and deleted in January, 2009. I recall that at that time I had 12 thumbs ups and no thumbs downs for several hours, then within a half hour, the most *amazing* thing happened, 53 thumbs downs appeared to "hidden due to low rating" the answer. Before the q closed, the asker chose it as Best Answer, so that rendered that hiding ineffective. I guess that there were a few users who were desperate to hide that answer because within hours of that BA, I had a VN in my mailbox for "not a question or an answer". Appeal was denied with a form letter.

The escalation of accusations to Jews that we display "hate" to Christians for simply declaring the doctrine of the Jewish religion has been astonishing in it's display in Y/A.

I see it as illogical to consider every university Comparative Religion course as hate to Christians. If it is hate to say Judaism isn't Christianity as any Comparative religion course would of course note,wouldn't it be hate to say any other religion that also is contradictory to Christianity is hate to Christianity?