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Wednesday, November 4, 2009

Those who hate Jews don't want you to read this

The question asked Why are Jews being accused of hate

and the additional details said:
when we state that "Messianic Jews" are not practicing Judaism?

My answer:

Two things that would become glaringly apparent to anyone who peruses the Y/A R&S section for questions asking about Judaism.

1) It is a rare thing when a question is asked about Jewish belief that there are not answers that appear from people who hold to beliefs that are utterly contradictory to Judaism (New Testament doctrine) and that violate the most basic core precepts of Torah, yet claim they are Torah observant.

2) These accusations of Jews hating people for belief in Jesus are antisemitic attacks on Jews. That is a fact. Antisemitism is hatred of the Jewish people. One does not lie about Jews, Judaism and falsely accuse Jews unless they hate them. It makes no difference if they're calling themselves the "real" Jews, that's a common ploy. The people at "Elohim City" in Arkansas also considered themselves the real covenant people of Israel. So do the Covenant Sword and Arm of the Lord groups. All have in common their desire to take on the identity of the Jews, incite hatred to the Jews and do away with us. Unfortunately the "Messianic Jews" have somehow fooled many good hearted people that they have a right to do this, whereas the other groups who engage in this behavior are rightly identified as hate groups. When Jews declare in all honesty that Christian doctrine is not Judaism, those are not attacks to the right of people to believe in the New Testament that tells them they must worship to or through Jesus or consider his crucifixion a sacrifice to atone for their sins.

The *first* time I asked for an example of the hate Jews are supposed to be displaying in Y/A to Christians, I was accused of speaking in hate for stating that belief in Jesus was not Torah observant! If that is the logic of that accusation, then there is no way to avoid that accusation as believing Jews will ALWAYS have to speak to the truth of the fact that the eternal covenant forbids worship of or through a human and that God does not become a man. Believing Jews do not believe God lied to us in the Torah. If speaking to the truth of Judaism is hateful to you, then don’t believe in Judaism.
 Find another path. Just don’t project hatreds onto a path that teaches us that all humans are worthy of God’s love and all able to directly connect to God and our fellow man in honesty and then expect anyone honest to have a whit of respect for you. 

It is not hate to say that Christian doctrine ( the New Testament ) is not Judaism.

If a Christian were to declare in all honesty that worship of the Devil is not Christianity, is it not the same logic ( actually LACK of logic ) to say that the Christian is displaying "hate" to the Devil worshipper who insists he is an observant Christian?
 The Devil worshipper may well have written or read a document of his particular religion that tells him that he is the real Christian because Jesus is really the Devil and therefore, anything that the Christian religion says is irrelevant and they no longer have a right to define themselves. Or at least that's what they claim, since the former Christian religion was "done away with".

So, who would be the one displaying hatred in that situation. The Christian who spoke out in truth that worship of the Devil can never be considered following their New Testament, and who says it is utterly offensive to call Jesus a devil? Or in this hypothetical nonsense, the Devil worshipper who is perverting every aspect of Christian faith and hijacking the identity of the Christians while lying about them?

Christianity isn't Judaism. The New Testament doctrine is not and shall never be a form of Judaism.

Now look at this convoluted "logic":

"We are told that Christians don't get to define what Judaism is and who is or is not a Jew but when you tell us that Messianics are Christians or that belief in Jesus makes you a Christian you are doing the same thing in reverse."
 Jews have  repeatedly said on questions that poster appeared on that it isn’t up to Jews to give them a name but they cannot hijack the name of Judaism, and we have no other name by which to refer to one whose spirituality, religious tenets and doctrine are from the books of the Christian Bible, their Old and New Testaments. Those texts have never been a part of Judaism. We repeat these truths until the cows come home and they’re ignored and then the attack to sidetrack soon follows..yup, there it is:

"You want us to treat you with respect but you are unwilling to reciprocate."  (user name removed here)
 Excuse me? And when or where have any Jewish users been disrespectful to anyone who was behaving with a modicum of respect to us?  Identity theft and utter falsification of the doctrine, tenets and beliefs of Judaism in a question and answer forum, false personal accusations, and other antisemitic attacks are not something that should be respected by ANY decent human being, Jew or Gentile.

The *last* time I asked for an example of the hate you accuse, the only response was for one known for antisemitic postings of their own to take an out of context quote from another Jewish user here about how Christian doctrine does not apply to Judaism and then claim it was hate against Christians! Jews teaching what is and is not Judaism does not define hate to another for their choice to believe in whomever or what ever they choose. 
By *that* logic, if a Christian were to say that worship of Vishnu is not a part of Christianity, they are displaying hate against the Hindu.  it wouldn't be accepted if that were presented, yet there are several on this forum who try to use that bizarro pretzel logic to claim Jews display hatred to Christians when we honestly say that Christianity is incompatible with Judaism and Jesus worship is a severe violation of Torah.

What I do see is that every time Jews speak out to correct someone who has said in utter falsehood that any form of worship to or through another human being could be compatible with Torah observant Judaism is that the Torah reasons given for this obvious statement are ignored and false ad hominem and strawman fallacy, and every other form of fallacious debate technique imaginable are given with these horrible accusations that Jews in Y/A are speaking out in hate to Christians. This is done for no other purpose than to create antisemitism. They continue it because it's working as the answers that appear alongside them to agree and further demonize illustrate.

It is a Torah obligation to Jews to speak out against anyone bearing false witness against Jews, Judaism and hijacking our very identity. Jews simply have no other name to give to a group whose tenets of faith are found in the New Testament, utterly contradict Torah in their assigning of the ability of a human to pardon sin, to be a sacrifice for sin and other violations of direct commandments. If they do not wish to be called Christian, that's not a Jewish issue. It IS a Jewish issue when they insist on hijacking Jewish identity.

Every branch of Judaism on every continent speaks in unison on this issue.
 This isn't a schism within Judaism.
 The only good thing to have come about this attack on Judaism in the 40 years since it first began is that it has actually brought the various movements together in understanding that we are much closer alike in our beliefs and understanding and that it is more a difference of how we choose to observe and honor what the Torah teaches us than what we read in the Torah.

This is why it has confused and often angered the Messianics so much and why they sometimes try to divide Jews here in pitting Orthodox vs Reform or Conservative...but you will note that Jews from Europe, Africa, North America, South America and the Middle East, from Orthodox, Reform, Reconstructionist and Conservative appear regularly in full agreement over this issue.

 I'm connected to nearly a 100 Jews from all over the world and not once have I seen any of them do what has been accused here.

Yes, we do reach out to our fellow Jews across the world. We have all said that teshuvah, repentance and return as taught in Torah are always open and available to any apostate who wish to return. King Solomon even displayed his change of heart in the last chapters of Ecclesiastes upon his return from his apostacy of following false gods and witchcraft.

And I also connect to and respect Christians of integrity who live as shining examples of their faith in treating their fellow Yahoo users with respect.

I shall also continue to speak out against bigotry and misrepresentation when I see it. I am here in Y/A to learn and to help others learn what I know, and that includes to speak out against willful misrepresentation of my religion and other Jews when I see it.

My answer ended above that line..now I add these comments regarding that incident.
The question was asked and deleted in January, 2009. I recall that at that time I had 12 thumbs ups and no thumbs downs for several hours, then within a half hour, the most *amazing* thing happened, 53 thumbs downs appeared to "hidden due to low rating" the answer. Before the q closed, the asker chose it as Best Answer, so that rendered that hiding ineffective. I guess that there were a few users who were desperate to hide that answer because within hours of that BA, I had a VN in my mailbox for "not a question or an answer". Appeal was denied with a form letter.

The escalation of accusations to Jews that we display "hate" to Christians for simply declaring the doctrine of the Jewish religion has been astonishing in it's display in Y/A.

I see it as illogical to consider every university Comparative Religion course as hate to Christians. If it is hate to say Judaism isn't Christianity as any Comparative religion course would of course note,wouldn't it be hate to say any other religion that also is contradictory to Christianity is hate to Christianity?