“Let's examine the type of answers that the Jews here are giving.”< Please do, please examine in detail and compare and contrast what is said. “They use words such as "lies and deceit" "financial bait and switch scam" "false" "apostates" "distorted" "deceptive" "dishonest" and "pretending to be Jews and playing Jewish dress up". Now these words can be facts or they could just be opinions.”
I think that claim is interesting for him to have made when his answer praises those who attack Judaism and at least one individual Jew under this very question? Not only was a respected Orthodox Rabbinical student libeled, but another used a term coined to insult Jews with the fallacious claim that we have no trust in God’s promise of the messiah and that we’ve abandoned a principle of our religion that we still maintain in steadfast refusal to impose idolatry upon it. Then another who claims to be an author insult Torah and Jews and Judaism and lie about the Tanakh and what it is Jews believe and do. His answer is ad hominem projection attempting to discredit Jews who are honest about Judaism and who give Torah precept to define Jewish identity. The scriptures of no other religion have authority to negate what God obligates Israel to be. God’s commandments in Torah are the sole determinant of defining who and what is or isn’t Judaism
It is no less an attack on Christianity to declare it is not Judaism than it would be for someone to say that the Hindu religion is not Christianity.
“The other type of answer is provided by Messianic believers such as Devoted 1, Jesus made me kosher, Abiyah Messianic Torah, and DSM. Have you noticed how they are telling your what Messianic Jews believe and they are not attacking Jews or Judaism in the process?” < That is a lie right there. One of them lies about another respected Jewish user’s answers and each of the others makes insulting claims about Judaism and one uses a term coined to negate a principle of Judaism in a very insulting manner. To falsely claim Jews are without messianic belief is no less insulting than if you said non God believing Jews because that’s actually what they are implying when they lie to label Jews non messianic. They're lying that we don't believe our God's promise to us and a principle of our own religion. Judaism is not without our faith in what God promised. It is because we REFUSE to negate the eternal covenant and accept it's replacement with dogma that is directly forbidden and condemned by God in the Torah for Israel, they are attacking Jews and Judaism and projecting that it is attack when Jews speak out against their assaults to our identity and our communities.
The most repeated and common method is to attack Judaism with offensive lies and then when Jews point this out, we're accused of attacking Christianity and hating them for their belief in Jesus to deflect their misrepresentations about the laws in the Holy Scriptures of the Hebrew Bible, and their lies about what Jews do and believe.
I've never seen any post by a Jew that misrepresents what the New Testament adherent who professes to be a Jew declares themselves to believe. When I've seen that claim made before by some of the users at that very question, they've never been able to come up with an example.
Why would they simultaneously profess to reject Rabbinical teaching but yet their attempts to prove their Jewishness is most dependent upon adopting rituals and customs created after 90CE by Rabbis (the kippot, and some of the Pesach rituals for instance) Christian theologians who know the history and archaeology know this reveals that the particular NT text referring to either Jesus or Paul as rabbis had to have been written after 90 CE, after the position Rabbi was created.
I have only ever met ONE who was an apostate Jew, all others were people who had various NON Torah /NON Jewish religion /law notions of Jewish identity.
A dream doesn't do it, being born to a Jewish father and being Baptised as a teen and worshipping Jesus doesn't make one an apostate, it makes one a Gentile hijacking Jewish identity. The British Israelite redefinition of Christians as the real Israel doesn't do it. Converting to "Messianic Judaism" and faith in the "Jewish Messiah Yeshua" doesn't do it.
Only God's word in Torah determines who is and what is of the covenant. That short list above includes just SOME of the self-professed ways that those who profess themselves to be the "real Jews" while calling all the world's adherents of Judaism, fake or "of the devil" ( that we don't even believe exists)
Don't let them deflect that this is Jews misrepresenting what they believe OR that we "persecute them for their faith in Jesus".
that's a retooling of the propaganda in Europe of the 1930's! That claim that Jews were persecuting Christians fueled many atrocities throughout the centuries.
This isn't about trying to convert them out of their Christian dogma, this is about them fraudulently claiming that their very different religion whose core doctrines directly contradict the core of Judaism *is* Judaism and that they have replaced the Jews with their New covenant of faith that is antithetical to the eternal covenant God has with the Jewish people.
That's a big difference.
In such a scenario ( you may think unlikely) many Baptists would remain silent to seeing multi-million dollar evangelical campaigns to impose worship that their Bible forbids to them upon their beliefs and practices and insist the world accept it as the "real Baptist" faith and go around teaching and soliciting money in the name of Baptists while professing that any Baptist who says otherwise is persecuting them for their faith?
Well, it wasn't that long ago that Jews around the world laughed at the early attempts by Christian evangelicals to present Jesus worship as Judaism. The stereotypes they employed were absurd, who would believe them? Well, they weren't effective in converting Jews, but there were an astonishing number of Christians that were enticed, and then many in their numbers began working harder in learning how to pose as Jews.
This is a lot to read and I know I've likely lost many people already. That's ok. Those that I haven't lost yet may decide to share what they've learned.
I believe I made the point clear way back that they aren't a part of the Jewish people and their religion isn't Judaism.
Throughout Jewish history when Jews adopted beliefs of the foreign gods of the people who surrounded us or who had ruled in conquest, the Jews suffered at the very hands of the people whose false and foreign gods they'd adopted. That's a lesson repeatedly detailed in the Tanakh and afterward in history.
If someone took your family name and were behaving in ways that were unethical, violated the laws of your people, brought dishonor and libeled you, it's hard to imagine anyone treated that way respecting those who did it , much less remaining silent. How much worse when it is done in the name of God and religion and a part of the misbehavior is using propagandizing to make the target of their libel out to be someone justly condemned by God.