EDIT 10/1/15, THREE YEARS AFTER I FIRST POST THIS I am sent something I'm told was given to a person who emailed me ( they're now blocked for profanity btw) and told that it "refutes" my "lies" here. I'll let the reader judge for themselves if these things are true about what has been posted here, and for which I've received over a hundred letters of praise since its posting. I don't usually put my edits at the beginning, but since this is so long, I want the reader who has not yet read this to keep these comments in mind to see just how irrational those who wish to evade accountability for hateful war mongering will behave. Here is an unedited copypaste of just part of the email I received today.
Apparently my post is STILL seen as threat to their hateful propagandizing. For that, I remain very proud.
I will post my comments in parenthesis FOLLOWING A << AFTER each "point"
1.She claimed that she only uses sources "she recognizes as credible", yet bias propaganda sites like massada200.com were used. This means the user does not use credible sources.
<< ( Please show ONE thing I've gotten from there. I can't even FIND such a link online, but note how there is absolutely NO mention of any of the reference sources I actually DID use.)
2. The topic was about the 1922 census of Palestine, but for some reason most of her "response" was about other totally irrelevant issues like the Jews who left Arab countries, how Arabs are anti-peace and want to wipe out Israel...etc. She reminds me of another user on Y/A with simmilar Hasbara tactic : if you can't answer facts, scream anti-peace, wipe out...etc!!!
<< ( "Response"? to what? ONLY a small portion of the essay below was a response to someone in Yahoo Answers who had found fault with my posting what I had written a LONG time before on the actual topic. The obsessive attack began when I posted a link to this blog entry on a question that had nothing to do with a census. But to claim this blog entry is about the 1922 census really? LOL! I'll let the reader decide if the topic was about the 1922 census of British Manate Palestine, another complete dodge,among several fallacious debate techniques. This is a really silly attempt to focus on a singular small mistake I'd made within it that one notoriously disruptive abuser of Y/A had tried to focus upon to dodge all the information I gave , and to which I readily admitted *three years ago* as evidenced below. The charge is ridiculous at best and discredits the person making this claim in the email to me today so readily but judge for yourself. I have NOT touched the text below this edit in three years. I also didn't even know what hasbara meant then. Hasbara is an Hebrew word defined as explanation, but it seems that term has been redefined by people who wish to justify elimination of the State of Israel to mean false propagandizing as I've seen it used. I'm sadly not fluent enough in Hebrew to have recognized what they were talking about the first time I heard that word hurled at me as if an insult, calling me a hasbara. I didn't even know it was Hebrew, I just figured it was another of the names I'm often called when I call for equal accountability and justice and peace when I stand up against those who wish to promote violence.
Talk about projection out the wazoo, apparently people who stand up against hate propagandizing with evidence and explanation of facts, so threaten their hate propagandizing they can only try to counter it with projection and redefinition of words to suit their whims )
3. She said Hamas and PLO charter both call for wiping out all Jews in the world. She referred a Muslim Hadith that speaks about FIGHTING the Jews, as in battle, and not murdering innoncent civilians. Her other source mentioned Palestinians saying Zionists, not Jews. She said that being anti-Zionist means anti-Jewish because Zionism aims to establish a safe state for the Jews. Of course this is only half of the truth. The other half is that the Jewish state was established on Arab majority land (how did Zionists plan to eatablish a Jewish democratic state on Arab majority land?) which is the real reason why Zionism is wrong! The PLO charter even recognized all the Jews who normally resided in Palestine, not illegal colonizers, as Palestinians.
<<( I will simply repeat here what you'll see below and then judge for yourself how egregiously this claim lies about what I've written here...youll read it as it appeared below again if you read the rest of this, then judge for yourself how what I've actually said is twisted in order for this post to try to justify a claim that there was no Jewish homeland in Israel.
This is what I actually said:
And here are links to both Hamas Charter and the Charter of the PLO
see for yourself if their desire is peace with Israel or the elimination of Israel and the Jews from Israel.
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm Hamas Charter It calls for the elimination of Jews read it yourself.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/plocov.asp
PLO charter Article 15 calls for the elimination of Zionism!
Zionism is the desire for the Jews to live in the homeland of Israel in peace. They openly declare a goal to eliminate that!"
- - -
Where do I say what he claims? I LINKED to the charters to let readers see for themselves what is precisely in the charters. However, I'll copy paste the Hadith portion that is IN THE CHARTER that the point above presents as if it somehow negates what I said
This is what is IN the Hamas Charter. I let the reader decide if this is "a Muslim Hadith that speaks about FIGHTING the Jews, as in battle, and not murdering innoncent civilians" or if this is justification for elimination of all Jews in Israel.
The quote from the Charter begins : "
Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim)."
the middle portion is the "hadith" that's quoted within the charter. I did not specifically refer to the "hadith" but to the CHARTER's proclamation that used the hadith.
The rest of the letter was filled with profanity, curses upon me and all my family and telling me how evil I am for promoting the extermination of the Palestinian people. I rarely give such hateful raving attention, but I do so here since this form of attempt to twist evidence is appearing more and more online, and that method is that ..Rather than actually address EVIDENCE and reality and what someone says or presents, make up lies about what is said, twist it and just fabricate things and then when you claim to refute the lies you've made up, claim some kind of moral victory and promote violence as justifiable. That is precisely what I read in that email. Of course, I hope you will judge completely for yourself.. See if what they claim about what I've written is true.
I will never remain silent to people who wish to justify bloodshed.
Now....the REST of this below the line is as it appeared originally in November of 2012.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a history lesson and a reality check. I 've compiled all this here primarily as a way to try to counter the massive misinformation and propagandizing that has been going on across the internet to justify another genocide attempt to the Jewish people and the cry of people to eliminate the legitimate State of Israel under a guise of a desire to help a persecuted indigenous Palestinian people they claim that foreign invading Europeans have displaced and treat horribly.
Before you begin to read this, take a moment to find a globe or map. Look at it carefully. Look at the country of Israel and see just how tiny it really is. Israel is not out to conquer the world, or even what Arab nationalism calls “the Arab world”. Israel wants to exist in peace alongside her neighbors to the mutual benefit of all as stated in her Declaration of Independence and supported by her laws.
The British Mandate of Palestine was carved into several modern day countries. Jordan is the largest of these, comprising approximately 80% of historical “Palestine”. Aboriginal inhabitants of "Palestine" are the Jewish nation people as well as many other tribal peoples. I own several books on that belonged to my maternal Grandmother that were printed in the years 1918-1942 in British Mandate Palestine. In every one of those books, the Jews are referred to as Palestinians and the Arab Muslims are referred to by various terms, primarily as "Bedouin"or preferrably to THEM, by their CLAN OR TRIBAL nation name such as, Quraish tribe. Before the 1960's , especially the tribal nations who had adopted Islam and did not eat pork, wrote of the label of Palestinian if applied to them on legal papers as efforts by the WEST at *humiliation* to be identified by that term. You can even see objective physical evidence of what I wrote here if you go search an online auction site. I have seen many old British Mandate Palestine ID cards for sale on eBay, for both Jews and Muslims , however, most are under the search listing “Judaica”. The Arab nation peoples indigenous to Palestine ( and remember I’m still speaking of the whole British Mandate before it was divided into Arab and Jewish lands) also saw it as an attempt to destroy their clans and culture to be lumped together with other tribes, some of whom they’d been at odds with for generations. I’m only familiar with some of the tribal names, they often referred to as their *nations* included Hayawat, Tayaha,,Azazma,Jahalin, and Tarabeen.
Many years ago my father and an uncle, living in two different states, became friends with individual Arabs from those regions, one of whom was from one of what they called the notable, or a’yan, social class (family name withheld because he still has family in the Middle East) Both of them said that for an Arab to be called a Palestinian when they were growing up, was considered an INSULT worthy to physically attack someone if they had been raised to hate Jews as so many had, since they recognized that the world at large equated Palestinian to Jew. Thankfully, then as now, not all non-Jewish Arabs living in the area are antisemitic. The reason these men and their families are here in the United States is because of their refusal to join in the idea that Jews should be eliminated. This is why they are friends.
As much as it was a shock to Jews across the world that collective Arab nationalism claimed the title of Palestinian for their collective name , it was an even greater shock to many of the Arabs living in Transjordan and Cisjordan. That they chose to unite all the tribal nations and the Syrian, Trans-Jordanian ( ruled by the Hashemites of the Quraish tribe), Egyptian and Lebanese Arabs living in neighboring Palestinian territories under the collective name of Palestinian was done for more than one reason.. They knew that the primary purpose was to try to unite tribal nations and clans who were at conflict to be focused upon a common “enemy” rather than to remain focused upon corrupt leadership that kept them as political pawns without a real voice to make their lives better through real independence.
The very largest portion of the portion of British Mandate Palestine is Jordan.The British Mandate included the landmass on the West Bank of the Jordan River all the way to the Mediterranean Sea, as well as the landmass on the East Bank of the Jordan River, an area known as Trans-Jordan. Israel lies in the portion that was called Cis-Jordan. The British called this whole huge area “Palestine". About 78% of Palestine is Jordan. In 1922, Britan renamed this land beign fought over by different tribes as "Trans-Jordan" and set up Abdullah ibn Hussein of the Hashemite clan, the "Sharif (religious leader) of Mecca" as its ruling representative, however it was still under British Rule. In 1946 Britan petitioned the UN to approve independent rule and it adopted the name of Jordan in 1950. It has always been strange to anyone knowing actual history of the Middle East to see how widespread the bizarre claims that Israel was "given" to the Jews as a homeland when Israel was largely purchased and was always the Jewish homeland, but the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan was acually "given" from the largest portion of Palestine, but it was still under British control until alittle more than a year before Israel declared its independence!
Historically and up until the 1960’s, the world referred to the Jews alone as the Palestinians.. When Immanuel Kant, the well known philosopher wrote of the Palestinians, he was speaking of the Jews alone He lived from 22 April 1724 – 12 February 1804.
Often, when European writers were referring to the Jews as Palestinians, they were doing so in order to claim that the Jews living in Europe were FOREIGNERS and should RETURN to their homeland of Palestine!
"Go back to Palesstine" would not have been a slur of European antisemites for centuries if Palestine was not the homeland of the Jewish people. The Jews never claimed the entire Ottoman Palestine, nor did they claim the entire British Mandate of Palestine after Lebanon and Syria were created from Palestine even before the rest of it was divided into Transjordan and Cisjordan. The fact that so many people under age 50 have been utterly duped into thinking that Jews are somehow a foreign presence to the land of Israel tells me that the Jew haters who've taken the propaganda campaigns of the Nazis their grandparents once allied were very effective in their teaching. Historical documentation abounds showing that in Europe in the 1700's and 1800's there were often assaults to Jewish communities with the antisemities declaring to them to "Return to Palestine!" If the region that was called Palestine was not known to be the homeland of the Jewish people, the antisemites who enacted pogroms on Jews in Europe for the past few hundred years wouldn't have been telling Jews to go "back" when they wanted to attack them as "foreigners" on "their" soil. Those are facts of history that my ancestors lived through. In a bizarre twist, when Jews were able to reestablish sovereignty in the homeland of eretz Yisrael, NOW antisemities want to declare that Jews are "foreigners" there!
When Jews in Safed tried to restablish self-rule in the 1400’s..they weren’t denied this because they were viewed as foreigners, but because they were viewed as Dhimmi and without rights.
I believe in the Declaration of Human Rights that gives every nation people the legitimate right to establish self-governance and self-determination.
The State of Israel is a legitimate country. It exists as legitimately as the United States of America or any other UN member nation. The Jewish people had been working to reestablish sovereignty in the homeland centuries before the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America had been proclaimed against Britain. The hard-earned efforts of Israel to gain statehood stand as an honorable example, if people would study it, rather than the often so bizarre it borders on insane propaganda spread about it. The facts invalidate the charges by extremist voices who would attempt to negate the right of the nation people, Israel to exist in the home LAND of Israel. Jordan, a country carved out of Palestine for the Muslim Arabs that does not have laws of religious freedom as Israel does, was created from 80 percent of Palestine! There is absolutely no way to get around that fact.
They want to claim that Jordan isn't the "land" of Palestine when figuring land mass percentage, yet when figuring the number of people who have the "right" to call themselves Palestinians; they have no qualms of using people who lived in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in British Mandate Palestine to represent the numbers of Palestinians. So often you’ll see people in the Israel Travel section of yahoo claim..they have British Mandate Census figures from 1922 or earlier showing Jews were only 7% of Palestine! If that figure is correct that could only be adding the Arab population of Transjordan since the 1922 Census for the rest of Palestine shows 11.6% and includes other areas Jews of course didn't live in. The census taken from 22 -48 also negate the claim of Jews DISPLACING Arab Muslims since their poplations also exploded rapidly in the region. If Jews were displacing Arabs, then the Arab populations in the regions "displaced" would have lessened, that isn't what is born out by the evidence. .Yet how odd it is that the designation of Palestinian refugee according to the UN can be conferred on anyone who lived in the now disputed territories for only two years! What other refugee group has such designation? Did those living in Gaza when Egypt controlled it cry out that Egypt was an "occupying nation"? Arabs in the West Bank when under the rulership of the Hashemite clan did not cry out "occupation", either.
There are also people who want to claim that in the region of Israel, the most ancient indigenous peoples were the Philistines..that doesn’t fit the archaeological evidence. They are confusing the Canaanites with the Philistines: The Philistines were invading conquerors from the Agean/Greek lands, and they occupied the five cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath, along the coastal strip of southwestern Canaan, south of the kingdom of Israel. They had small city states and warred with all that surrounded them continually.
"The term 'Palestine' is derived from the Philistines. In the fifth century BCE the Greek historian Herodotus seems to have used the term Palaistine Syria (= Philistine Syria) to refer to the whole region between Phoenicia and the Lebanon mountains in the north and Egypt in the south. The pupose he did so is pretty clear to see that the newer invading Greeks of Herodotus time felt a great kinship to their ancient kin, the Philistines because it was and remains no secret that Greece was the HOMELAND of the Phlistines! They saw the ancient ruins of their predecesors and renamed their conquest to honor them.
The Philistines lost their independence to Tiglath-Pileser III of Assyria by 732 BCE, and revolts in following years were all crushed. Later, Nebuchadrezzar II of Babylon eventually conquered all of Syria and the Kingdom of Judah, and the former Philistine cities became part of the Neo-Babylonian Empire. There are few references to the Philistines after this time period. This all happened long *before* Herodotus wrote his history in the fifty century BCE. Subsequently the cities were under the control of Persians, Jews (Hasmonean Kingdom), Greeks (Seleucid Empire), Romans, and subsequent empires.
The Seleucid Empire (312 - 60 BCE) was a Hellenistic successor state of Alexander the Great's dominion. It was during the GREEK rule that Herodotus lived and wrote.
During the second century BCE, under the Hasmonean priest-kings, the name of the tribe of Judah became applied to a very wide region, and when the Romans took control of that territory in 63 BCE they called it Provincia Judaea.
However, in 135CE, after putting down the second major Jewish revolt against Rome, the Emperor Hadrian wanted to blot out the name of Judea and the presence of the Jews so he changed it to Provincia Syria Palaestina (ie the Latin version of the Greek term). This was later shortened to Palaestina, from which the modern 'Palestine' is derived.
According to noted historian, Thomas McCall, the name "Palestine" was not used until the early second century CE. The Romans continued the use of Judea and called the northern regions Galilee. McCall wrote: "When Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 CE., the Roman government struck a coin with the phrase 'Judea Capta,' meaning Judea has been captured. The term Palestine was never used in the early Roman designations." After Bar Kochba's unsuccessful second Jewish revolt against Rome in 135 CE, Emperor Hadrian ordered that all Jews be exiled from the Holy Land. "He took the name of the ancient enemies of Israel, the Philistines, Latinized it to Palestine, and applied it to the Land of Israel. He hoped to erase the name Israel from all memory."
The name of the Philistines, a people that had historically been continually warring against the Jewish kingdoms, was chosen by Hadrian for the very purpose of insulting the Jews.
There is an arch in Rome showing their capture of the Jewish kingdom and sacking the Temple . I suppose the arch of Titus and the coins along with museums full of archaeological evidence of Jewish kingdoms are invisible to people who wish to ignore the right of the Jewish people to the *homeland* of Israel in peace alongside her neighbors.
There has never been an independent country of Palestine in the area, unfortunately. There could have been one alongside Israel, for 60 years now. There can STILL be one if peace is what they truly want rather than the genocidal massacre of an established legitimate country and her citizens.
It is utterly inappropriate propagandizing to to distort history to paint Israel in a false picture by placing the Palestinian Arabs as the Native American Indian The reality of the situation is that the nation of Israel is a much closer parallel to the displaced Native American Indian nations that simply want to live in their native homelands in PEACE and despite being demonized and mischaracterized throughout history, have worked and continue to work to bring about the realization of their nations' sovereignty once again and through legitimate peaceful means! Israel continues to go through the kind of nonsense the U.S. government and the Canadian governments perpetrate on the First Nations. The 22 Arab Muslim nations that surround Israel are a much more apt comparison to the corrupt manner of the larger entity attempting to do away with the existence of a nation people through every means of propagandizing and demonization possible including misappropriating their culture, dismissing the discrimination as something in the “past” that just must be gotten over, and even justification of violence. A peaceful resolution and another state for the Palestinian Arabs can only come about with complete honesty about the past and the present. Those who try to bring up the Native First Nations to draw inappropriate parallels are not focused on solving the issues that First Nation’s people’s STILL endure and it’s really disgusting to see this red herring brought up again.I am disgusted by the history revisionism that tries to equate the legitimate means of the formation of the State of Israel when the Jewish nation people worked to reestablish self-rule in the Jewish homeland and create a democratic state whose laws protect the religious freedoms of all citizens no matter their religion with the despicable malfeasance of the United States Government concerning the Native American Indian nations. There is no legitimate comparison to equate Israel to the United States and it’s despicable policies that were once studied by Himmler to be used to eliminate the Jewish people!
Jews so often see bigots trying to claim that Jews "use" the Holocaust to gain special favor or status. Any opportunity for such a platform will be used to promote that agenda. I was also told by one Lakota friend that because of the distrust among the young to the whites and European colonizers, their youth have been targeted as accomplices to such an agenda. This respected Lakota friend from the Lakota Rosebud Reservation in South Dakota informed me in 2001 that their tribal council had even been the target of such uninvited propaganda.
Thankfully, at that time, their wise tribal elders investigated on their own to discover the truth of the matter by examining actual history and documentation, realizing that museums full of archaeological evidence and that a continual and unbroken historical record would have to be completely dismissed to accept the claims of the Palestianian propagandists. They then came to these conclusions without any Zionists helping them to do so. This propaganda machine is still at work trying to distort history to paint Israel in a false picture by placing the Palestinian Arabs as the Native American Indian and that the disenfranchised among their youth, as all others, can be easier prey to believe the hate. Now, years later I'm seeing increasing evidence that the hate propagandizing is still going on and is being believed by more young Indians.
There were millions of First Nations indigenous peoples, whole cultures have been destroyed since the first Europeans arrived to the shores of North and South America. There was willful attempt to kill off the North American native populations that continued into the twentieth century and apparently from what my Native friends have shown to me, it continues today with assimilation and government’s still failing to honor treaty agreements with their sovereign nations. The Israel bashers aren’t concerned with the plight of the Native American nation peoples, but they certainly want to use them for their own ends!
In a past generation, another group who wanted to use the American Indians and how the U.S. treated them to learn how to more effectively eliminate the Jews, and this is still going on.
It is repugnant to the extreme to make such a horrid lie to accuse Israel of doing to the Palestinians what their Arab bretheren have done to them..to make them eternal refugees. Israel has not, does not and will never be in any manner analogous to the perpetrators of the genocide of the First Nations of the North American continent. In a genocide populations plummet not explode as the Palestinian population has done for decades!
Moreover, the IGNORANCE of most of MY own generation here in the U.S about the genocide of Native Americans does not abdicate our responsibility to still speak out against it! Many were also willing accomplices to "civilize" the "savage" by forcing Indian children to adopt the Christian religion and forbidding them to speak their native languages, practice their native spiritual paths and in essence, obliterated many cultures just as insidiously as disease and war did. It is also non-productive to dismiss that the European settlers who came here were often unwitting accomplices to displace those people. Many who settled areas that had been rendererd Indian "free" ( compare to the notion Hitler had of rendering Europe Jew free..he even had Himmler study how the U.S had done this to the Indian!) had no idea that the land had been rendered empty of it's original inhabitants. The fact that my own ancestry was in Europe when these nations were being destroyed on this continent does not mean that I have no responsibility today to make sure those tragedies are not forgotten as well as to learn and transmit the history of my own people.
As to the claims that Palestinians are under a genocide from Israel. BULL! Their population has increased six fold in sixty years. That does not happen in a genocide. It is the nation people, Israel who were dispersed, demonized, persecuted and now that we have our tiny homeland once again for 60 years, that makes up less than 1% of the Middle East and only about 23% of the former British Mandate of Palestine, that is not respected by bigots and people with an agenda of hate and violence. Not vice versa..Look at the false charge that Jews just showed up and stole land! Read the charters of the surrounding groups and then read the declaration of independence of Israel. Learn some history, pay attention to what is happening. Look what happened when Israel pulled out of Gaza! Israel has been the homeland of the Jews for three thousand years.. There has never been a time when Jewish presence was not there and the desire for our homeland to be restored. NEVER Again will we go silently.
Jerusalem should have NEVER been divided in the first place and now that it is reunited and all religions have their holy places protected, that is what should remain..the capital of Israel, undivided forever.
The Palestinians are NOW a people and as such should work to nation building for themselves rather than nation destroying for their neighbors. Yet when I hear them on the radio, internet and TV, rather than that goal, their goal is to take over Israel as their Palestinian homeland.
I respectfully suggest that one read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown or Custer Died for Your Sins by Vine DeLoria Jr. and then read about the history of the formation of the State of Israel and compare for YOURSELF. The information is available if you wish to read from reputable and legitimate scholarly sources and individuals. There is no honest way one could equate the formation of the state of Israel to the policies of the United States and its horrible policies.
Over the course of time and changing political landscapes with region's changing names, so do terms change.Israelite is the name of a member of the covenant nation, Israel and was the common way to refer to them in the days before the Exodus from Egypt. We now refer to this people collectively as Jews. The Jewish people are technically "Israelites" but after the Diaspora, this term came to disuse.
The term Palestinian refers to inhabitants of a region known as Palestine.This was the historical use until Egyptian Arab nationalists created a collective nation of the "Palestinian Liberation Organization".
Today, when people say Palestinian, they are referring to the collective name chosen by Arab nationalism for people who are primarily Jordanian and Egyptian in descent and culture, but who live in Gaza and the West Bank and disputed terrirories.
I sincerely want there to be a peaceful two-state solution to this problem. That can only come about with complete honesty about the past and the present. It is not and has never been in Israel's best interest or aims to commit genocide on any people and there has been no attempt toward any effort by Israel.
Besides Israel, other countries that now exist in the historical land region called Palestine and became independent countries in the 20th century. Syria, Lebanon and Jordan that were all also created out of the region known as Palestine. Israel's establishment was through a more legal process than all 3 of the others. Documentation proves it. Even the antisemitic British who wanted to keep calling Jews a 'race" in their later Arab nationalistic pandering documents couldn't find any justification for the charges of illegal land aquisition and had to admit that in all such instances of charges ..there was no illegality involved. ( Peel Commission)
Unlike Israel that permits citizenship, voting rights and religious freedom for Muslim Arabs, Jordan has laws that prohibited each of those things for Jews. The Jordanian 1954 law on nationality EXCLUDES Jews specifically from becoming citizens and Jewish tourists are routinely even denied entry into Jordan, one of two Arab countries to have signed a peace treaty with Israel. Israel has Muslim Arabs as citizens with rights and has laws that protect their rights to their holy places. Try walking across the border into Jordan carrying a Christian Bible in your hand and see if you're not arrested.
To get back to the propaganda of claiming Palestinians are either “native Philistines” or their plight is like what the U.S. has done and still does to our own indigenous peoples,
The Jews I know are horrified about the injustices done to Native American Indians. I also recognize that injustices have been committed in MY generation.
Indians of my own generation were often removed from their parents poverty stricken homes and placed in mission Indian schools where they were forbidden to speak their native tongue, learn their native religions and were often posed in photos to send out in mass mailings that called them ORPHANS! I discovered that my own parents were taken in by this scam. They were not wealthy by any means, but because of the ethics of Judaism that teaches us to care for the orphan and thoseless fortunate, they donated to these schools, but only decades afterward when I met an adult who was one of those children did we discover that those schools were doing to Indian children what had been done to my ancestors in many lands in attempts to obliterate our identity as a people!. My parents believed they were sending money to help feed and clothe and educate orphan Indian children, but instead what was happening was they were supporting a missionary endeavor that preyed upon and destroyed Indian culture. Is it any wonder that many of them grew up to hate the whites who did this to them? This wasn’t 200 or 300 years ago, but people of MY generation. I remember the flyers and tracts.
Rez humor is very much in the same tone and style of much of the style of Jewish humor of the shtetl of my grandparent's generation and resonates in much of modern Jewish humor still. I discovered this through chance meetings and friendships developed between myself and quite a few Indian friends from more than a half -dozen different nations I have met online in the past decade. Biting wit and self-depreciatory, through each person and each nation is different, collectively it is the humor of a people who have known persecution and still feel the sting of bigotries and discrimination.
Those are the connections I see between Jews and Indians, I don't see them as our "Lost Tribes"..we each have our own tribes. They've sometimes asked me how I 'get' them on certain issues they believe most whites have a very hard time grasping or coming to terms with. That's how I get it. The recogition of our shared humor opened up my eyes to why that was the case.
Another problem with the history of the Indians in the U.S. has been the government itself keeping much of the double dealing and atrocities shielded from the masses. In my mother's day in school, she was taught that Custer was a hero. When I was a teen, Dee Brown's Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, a best seller that wasn't even brought up at school, was an eye-opener for this paleface who was simply ignorant about the events. What did the average white bread boy or girl know a generation ago when all we saw as children were TV shows and movies portraying the Indian as "savage" or as blissfully innocent and ignorant nature lovers whose young women were princesses and would fall in love with every handsome white man ..and the men who killed the Indians were called "heroes".
My generation was the first to begin to learn the real history, and then the Indians were turned into another MYTH of the "Noble Savage"..and this led to another problem .. the New Ager Wannabes and Pretendians. I have read many articles about the horrible hijacking of the diverse Indian nations religions and customs...ironically the problems they have in this regard are STRIKINGLY similar to what Jews cope with from the "Messianic" Christian posing as Jew. Even their history revisionism methods are identical in how they attempt to tie in contradictory and unrelated peoples to being the real members. I have spent countless hours in conversations with Indians in chat rooms comparing notes and we have often been left simply shaking our heads at the similarity of methods used by people outside our "tribal" nations to misrepresent, hijack our identities and redefine us out of existence. Just as some of the "messianics" have only been victims of misinformation campaigns themselves, many of the New Agers are people whose heart is in the right place, but they've been brainwashed by people with ulterior profit motives to believe that they're honoring Indians while utterly disrespecting them and obliterating their very existence in deed.
Claiming to be appalled at the ill treatment of Native American Indians and Palestinians does not give a bigot the right to demonize and spew hatred and lies unnoticed about Jews. If one is sincere in empathy about the plight of the Palestinians they would work toward nation BUILDING for them and to hold their own corrupt leaders accountable for their victimization rather than promote hatred, lies and nation destroying for Israel.An inquiry with a search engine online can show anyone interested how many BILLIONS of dollars of humanitarian aide has been given to Gaza AND the West Bank in the past decade. If my home state that is more than a hundred times larger in land area had half that much our highways and bridges would not be so dilapidated.
The millions of Jewish refugees from Arab lands didn't receieve a PENNY of international aid and have never received a penny of their own confiscated bank assets or compensation for all the personal property and real estate confiscated.
Peace is something that will only come about with honesty, mutal respect, equal accountability standards and genuine fairness. It is long past due for the civilized world to demand equal standards of accountability and for justice.
Here are many more things to read if you still don’t get it.
The following sites are reputable references or contain them and reveal objective data to support all claims.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_faq_palestine_un_anti_israel_bias.php
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111220153746AA0HKMY
http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/AIPAC-2002-05-20.asp
http://www.zionism-israel.com/Israel.htm
Then go read the other blog entry I wrote about the topic of Israel if you still don’t get it.I believe in the Declaration of Human Rights that gives every nation people the legitimate right to establish self-governance and self-determination.
Every nation people has a beginning, a homeland. For the Jews, Israel is that land. It is a part of the very identity of the covenant nation, our eternal tie to the land of our patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and to our mothers, Sarah, Rivkah and Rachel.
The modern state of Israel does not need to base it’s legitimacy on a belief of promise from God, Israel exists as legitimately as the United States of America or any other member nation. The Jewish people had been working to reestablish sovereignty in the homeland centuries before the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America had been proclaimed against Britain.
No other nation on the planet would have been as restrained as Israel has been in trying to protect its very existence for more than 60 years of onslaught. Israel dedicated itself to working with the nations surrounding it to establish a peaceful Middle East in its Declaration of Independence. Look at the charters for Hamas and for the PLO. They contain direct statements dedicated to genocidal elimination of Israel. Only when their desire to build a nation in peace is greater than their desire to destroy Israel will they live and work toward that peace. Israel is ready. How can people claim the desire for Israel to exist in their own homeland as nation in peace is racist or a desire to persecute or eliminate others when the laws of the land protect others freedoms, too? Why is it acceptable to hate the nation people Israel/Jews for wanting self-rule in our homeland of Eretz Yisrael? That is what Zionism is. It is not anything racist.
It is no more racist to be Zionist than it is for any of the Muslim nations to have their own nations. In fact, because Israel is not a theocracy and it has laws protecting the religious practice and holy places of other religions, it does not violate the UN Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, as do many Islamic nations that complain that Zionism is racist! Why should the Jewish people be excluded from the basic human right of self-determination afforded to all other peoples under the guidelines of the Declaration of Human Rights?
If this issue in the Middle East is about the right of people to self-determination and self rule in their homeland, then there should be no problem with the State of Israel existing in peace surrounded by so many larger Arab Muslim countries, including the larger Muslim states also created out of Palestine that do not have the same religious freedoms and in which Jews cannot own land or vote, much less, hold office as Muslim Arabs do in Israel.
Jerusalem is the eternal capital of Israel. Israel is the eternal homeland of the Jewish people. If the surrounding Muslim nations should eliminate Israel, then they would be denying for the Jewish people the very thing they claim to want for themselves.
EDIT: IN RESPONSE TO THE positive feedback and popularity of this post..I was called out as a liar for the previous information ..by a Hamas supporter. ( Big surprise, eh?) That alone should be sufficient that I shouldn't have even engaged him further because I believe that until Hamas removes their genocidal goals from their Charter they show they are not capable or willing of negotiating peace or supporting justice. Since I'd exposed the lies of the one who now appears obsessed with me a number of times before, and his behavior is escalating to outrageous behaviors I am not going to continue to permit my blog to be used as a place for another's personality problems. I'm writing this for people who are sincere in hoping to understand the complexity of the issue and who wish to strive to PEACE. And for this, now I've become the target of libelous attacks and other nefarious online behavior. I'm not going to play the game. Instead of what I have previously done, addressing the individual and pointing out his tactics in great detail to show how it is hate propagandizing, I'm going to try to keep refocusing on the facts at hand about the right of ISRAEL to exist in peace and perhaps this won't be so much about ME but the FACTS they want so desperately to deny and hide.
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/A682CABF739FEBAA052565E8006D907C
I will only go to websites I recognize as legitimate so as not to get any of those nasty trojans sent to my blog via comments that thankfully my antispyware picked up another failed try to hide the evidence I've presented.
The same month the census was taken for the Cisjordan region of Palestine, a resolution was passed by the Council of the League "to exclude Transjordan from the Articles of the Mandate which concern the Holy Places and the measures to be taken in concert with the Jewish Agency for the establishment of a Jewish National Home." ***this is how Jordan got away w/ destorying holy sites to Judaism! *** The British pandered to the desire of the Arabs to prohibit Jews from having any control or protection over the ancient holy sites to Judaism and Christianity***The Order in Council also contains a provision that it shall not apply to the Transjordan territory.
This recognizes that Transjordan was part of British Mandate Palestine! Also note that it recognized SYRIA as also having been just recently carved out of Palestine as I've said. Syria and Jordan are not nearly large enough for the Arab Palestinains?
I learned by reading that census that there are also thousands of people counted as Palestinians that were not living in the region during the census..several thousand Palestinian born Jews among them.
So..the facts of the British Mandate and the census reveal ..Jews and Arab Muslims and Arab Christians as well as Druze ( those I've spoken to do not like to be called Arab) and ohers were all called Palestinian.
Before Syria and Jordan became separate countries..they too..were Palestinian. Yet all those individual nation peoples being called Palestinian at the time..didn't like that term..including the Arabs. They wanted to be known by their own nation names...and it wasn't until later that the name Palestinian united many smaller Arab nations under this one umbrella term. They've a right to do that, too.
But they do not have a moral right to eliminate Israel and her people.
And here are links to both Hamas Charter and the Charter of the PLO
see for yourself if their desire is peace with Israel or the elimination of Israel and the Jews from Israel.
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm Hamas Charter It calls for the elimination of Jews read it yourself.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/plocov.asp
PLO charter Article 15 calls for the elimination of Zionism!
Zionism is the desire for the Jews to live in the homeland of Israel in peace. They openly declare a goal to eliminate that!
So once AGAIN, I've disproven with evidence the lies presented and even disproven the false charge aginst me that I lied with evidence. Facts don't seem to mean a thing to people hell bent on perpetrating violence instead of seeking peace. AND because I'm trying to focus on the facts and the evidence I've decided to remove a whole heck of a lot of refutation of ad hominem and other nonsense. Yes, believe it or not ( if you're just stumbling upon this post) it was a lot longer..but now the facts are easier to find.
“XVI.--CENSUS.
A Proclamation of 1st September, 1922, provided the authority for the taking of a census, and by an Order of the same date a Superintendent of Census was appointed.
Enumerators and Revising Officers were recruited from the Administrative and Departmental staffs of districts. The taking of the census, the first of its kind in Palestine, met with the general co-operation of the population, with the exception of the Beduin of the Southern District, who have a traditional objection to being numbered. Their numbers were estimated by reference to tithes payments.
The census results were:--
Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
_______
Total ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 757,182
In 1882, official Ottoman Turk census figures showed that, in the entire Ottomon Palestine, there were only 141 000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab.
If the population had tripled in 40 years that would only be 423,000 Muslims in the whole of Palestine BEFORE the split with France..yet the census above shows that in 1922..there were 590,000
Rather than DISPLACING ARABS even this census..shows that their population is on the increase as wel..however..the Jewish population had stagnated for a time.
I formerly made one mistake..that of course had to be jumped upon as if it was the end all be all POINT of a "debate" because he cannot refute the massive amount of evidence I have to support my claims
The request to separate Transjordan from Cisjordan under the "Palestine Mandate" did not *take effect* until September 29, *1923. The REQUEST to exempt Transjordan from the Mandate was made just prior to the taking of the census of the whole of Palestine that was *commissioned * September 1st..1922..BEFORE the request to exclude Transjordan from the Mandate rule was accepted. It was not independent from British governance at this time. Thus, I believed that since the request was not LEGALLY in effect at that time..according to LAW mind you..that's why I said legally..I believed it should have meant that the 1922 census of the British Mandate Palestine *included Transjordan.* I still wonder how they did the census without Jordan BEFORE the legal request to exempt Transjordan from the Mandate was approved as documentation reveals? So, that's a q that remains unanswered to me. Jews did not claim Jordan as their homeland anyway.
The OLD UN document showed the borders and acerage of the census areas..and I am sure that somewhere online I'll find someone who has saved it. This is the defunct link that formerly had the most information on the British Mandate and on Transjordan and Cisjordan. http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/1ce874ab1832a53e852570bb006dfaf6/c61b138f4dbb08a0052565d00058ee1b!OpenDocument
I've still not been shown to be a "liar" about the facts regarding Israel. The facts remain that Transjordan and Cisjordan were "Palestine". This is how they misinform, through weasel wording to claim that Jews want all Palestine when all Jews call as our homeland is ISRAEL that is within that larger region comprised of many different nation peoples.
Weasel wording again that has already been eviscerated . I'd noted the evidence that sometimes some of those who wantt to eliminate Israel recognize that Transjordan it was part of Mandate Palestine before 1922..( although it wasn't called Palestine after 22..it doesn't change that Jordan was NOT independent from British rule AND that Syria and Jordan were TWO states carved out of the Palestinian mandate around the same time as Israel )
The British Mandate Palestine was divided into two geographic regions..Transjordan and Cisjordan. That is still a fact and Israel was not even comprised of all of Cisjordan..the lands that were collectively called Palestine after the split became legal in 1923.
If you exclude Transjordan from being "Palestine" then by what logic could one possibly insist that CISJORDAN is Palestine? The districts are listed in that "census". The State of Israel was created out of approximately 70% of Cisjordan.
If Transjordan is not Palestine how is Cisjordan Palestine? These geographical names were created to obfuscate tribal and national recognitions.
I know that the Arab tribal nations did not like to be called Palestinian back then as I noted and I've previously given quotes from Arab leaders in their own words stating why. But both Arab and Jew and Druze and Qurash, and all other nation/tribes were designated Palestinian by the British even as they disrespected Jewish law to call Jews a "race"..and tried to characterize Jews as backed by money and power and Arabs as hopeless and helpless..sound familiar? The Jewish refugees certainly weren't amused.
The British Mandate of Palestine = Transjordan and Cisjordan. That is what was the case in 1922.
So when they commissioned a census for the whole of British Mandate Palestine on September 1, 1922. I had believed.they meant a census for British mandate palestine..ALL OF IT. On September 16th, 1922 the Council, in accordance with this article, approved a proposal by the mandatory Power to the effect that the provisions of the Mandate respecting the Jewish national home and the Holy Places should not be applied to Transjordan. However, Transjordan was STILL under British rule at this time.
They want to focus on my one mistake to sidetrack from the fact that these documents still recognize the Jewish legal right to the Jewish homeland. Transjordan that didn't have or want any Jews wanted to be as separate from the Jewish homeland as possible...and wanted to keep the Holy sites away from Jews so they could trash them.
Do we want them to destroy more holy sites or destroy again places that are being rebult?
http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/11/30/historic-synagogue-in-jerusalem%E2%80%99s-old-city-to-be-restored/
I believe I said they destroyed 53 synagogues..but I discovered I was wrong, it was 58 synagogues were destroyed whenand the entire Jewish quarter of East Jerusalem was bulldozed when Jerusalem was split in two with Jordan controlling the Holy Sites. The ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives was desecrated, and the tombstones there were used for construction and paving roads. There were also entire Jewish villages near Jerusalem that were destroyed.
I still think it is odd of the British to compleely omit taking a census from the districts in Transjordan in the 1922 figures since they were still RULING it. I believe they did take a census of Transjordan as well..and that's the census I can't find ..anyone have it? I know no Jews were in Transjordan in 22 having been forbidden settlement there in 1921.
Woudn't it be logical for Britian to want a census that included the ENTIRE area of British Mandate Palestine, including area that was forbidden in 1921 to Jewish settlement, that of Transjordan that was in 1922 declared to be exempt from the protection of holy places to other religions ( specifically they did not want Jews controlling any). Even if they did NOT include it in their census of Palestine..but called it Transjordan's census..it's hard to imagine that one doesn't exist or why they would not have taken one. Did the Hashemites forbid it as it would have revealed illegal immigration as they already knew was going on from Syria and Lebanon?
However, weasel wording doesn't change the facts ..Israel exists as legitimately if not more so than any other country carved out of the mandate period and it did not "displace" Arabs. Note that is one thing his own figures reveal!
I'll repeat one last time..the Census commissioned on September 1st and carried out in October was ordered apparently sixteen days before the approval of a propsal that the provisions of the mandate respecting the Jewish national home and the Holy Places should not be applied to Transjordan,the exemption ( which still did not give Transjordan independence from the British mandate ) did not go into EFFECT until September 29, 1923, hence my mistake to believe the 1922 Palestine census included ALL of then Palestine..which means Transjordan, too.
****On September 29, 1923 the British mandate in Palestine and the French mandate in Syria went into effect ...If Israel has no "right" to exist then by the logic that claims all of "Palestine",then those two countries are as "illegitimate" as Israel. *****
Even if I'm mistaken about the area covered by the 22 census. That's one mistake that doesn't change every other fact I've given.
quote from a link underneath this:
"The “Mandate for Palestine” was not a naive vision briefly embraced by the international community. Fifty-one member countries – the entire League of Nations – unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:
Whereas
recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people
with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that
country.”
The entire League of Nations recognized that the Jewish people have a historical connection to our national home
It is important to point out that political rights to self-determination as a polity for Arabs were guaranteed by the same League of Nations in four other mandates – in Lebanon and Syria (The French Mandate), Iraq, and later Trans-Jordan [The British Mandate]
Earlier I gave a link to the Hamas Charter points out where it notes that all the world's Jews will be eliminated by quoting a hadith..
The PLO charter I noted precisely where it calls for the elimination of zionism..which means the elimination of the Jews living in the homeland of Israel in peace..as that is the definiton of Zionism.
Jew haters to do not get to redefine Zionism for Jews or for any honest person seeking peace, justice and equal accountability. Zionism isn't going to change from it's meaning of Israel existing in peace no matter how nastily those who want to destroy Israel project their desires upon Israel to try to seek justification for eliminating Israel and her people.
To those who lie to claim the disputed territories are the impediment to peace, as if
the rest of the world has been oblivious to the events in the Middle East for the past 64 years. The PLO Charter that declares in article 9 that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase". Now, read that carefully, they openly admit in their Charter that they are dedicated to a violent elimination of the State of Israel to replace it with another Arab state and their charter has described just what they've been doing for even longer than the charter itself. Yet all these decades of violence perpetrated upon Israel are characterized as "64 years of Israeli aggression against Palestinians, land theft, ethnic cleansing (yes majority of Gaza population are refugees from what became Israel in 1948 denied the right to return just because they are not Jews), colonization, apartheid, economic blockade...etc and all of the sudden it is Israel defending itself against external aggression? I guess up is down and right is left!" < a quote from one who supports Hamas' goal, too.
Only in the war mongering propagandizing of the "Arab world" is that the case that down is up ( they claim a genocide in a population explosion ) And they ignore there is only ONE world people..the real one. Not an Arab world..or a Jewish world, but in the real world..the many countries who have declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization clearly know the reality..the experiences of the people in the land of Israel did't happen in a vaccum and no matter how desperate or how large the hate propaganda machine..the truth does come out.
All of a sudden..eh? It's been far longer than sixty four years of Arab aggression against the native Jewish nation people in our homeland, but since the independence of Israel was legally obtained..it has been under assault for the entire 64 years of its existence as the entire world knows.
It appears from my efforts to find the information on that defunct page I've uncovered another page that also negates the claim that Israel and the jewish people were "ethnically cleansing" all who were not Jews..AND shows data to support the claim that Jewish settlement in Palestine brought Arabs in ..in large numbers...prior to 1948.
Bahai and Druze who were native to the Jewish Palestine lands did not become refugees in any appreciable numbers so there goes the lie that Jews expelled all who weren't Jews.
I've received a lot of different forms of attack and lies about what I've written here. Most of it seems desperate deflection from facts about the genocidal efforts to eliminate Israel that are taking place before all the world to witness and Israel’s moral defense of her citizens once again as all nation peoples are entitled to do in response to acts of terrorism and war in order to survive.
EACH time I disproved lies my obsessed one simply moved the goalpost with new lies rather than say..oops..yup, you were right, you did show the evidence of documentation to support what you claimed, oops, yes, you did show that Transjordan was indeed part of British Mandate Palestine at the time the census was commissioned, oops, yes, you did show precisely where Hamas and the PLO show dedication to eliminate Israel . On a previous occasion on a different question he’d tried his longstanding tactic with other claims..to present a list of unsupportable claims and insist that no one can or has ever even tried to refute them..when he knows neither claim is true..so when I showed that he had already been refuted on the same things many times and kept showing fact after fact he denied, rather than acknowledge that, he escalated. I’ve no reason to believe he will ever do anything differently so rather than waste my time addressing every personal attack and lie since they continue to escalate, I will try to REFOCUS BACK TO THE IMPORTANT ISSUE AT HAND. Israel is under attack in an attempt to eliminate her and her people. The world is watching. Israel has a legitimate right to defend her citizens. History and documentary evidence and archaeological evidence and the memories of a whole people don’t simply disappear because you hate Jews.
He can keep raving and making all sorts of unsubstantiated claims and I’ll keep providing evidence to disprove lies any time I see them and know them to be lies. I don’t claim to know everything about this complex problem…but I do know enough to expose outrageous lies refuted by official documents and history.
The fact remains that both Palestinian Arabs and Jews recognized that all the censuses of both Ottoman and British Palestine taken prior to Israel being declared a state were likely inaccurate…and for more than one reason. Bedouin Arab tribal people were likely undercounted and the illegal immigration from both Syrian and Transjordanian Arabs and the Jews fleeing the pogroms at the turn of the century …avoided being counted.
*** I demonstrated that Jews did not ever claim the lions share of Palestine that was made into four Arab nations*** I demonstrated that Jews only claimed the Jewish homeland! Time and time again I showed this evidence that still stands here via references.
I disproved the claims he'd made about the 1922 census and I proved my own..I didn't address his nonsensical fallacy. *** It appears BOTH my obsessive antagonist and myself clearly made mistakes about that census. I won't hold my breath for his acknowledgement of that or any of the other points his own documentation discredited.
Their claims have been that Jews displaced the Arab population and that's why the Arabs attacked..The fact remains that Jews did not displace Arabs but encouraged their immigration, and in 1948..when approximately 711,000 Arabs DID leave, they fled Jewish Palestine region waiting for the land to be rendered free of Jews as their leaders had promised. It is not supportable by any census that they were all indigenous to that region of Cisjordan/Palestine. They still could have remained to become citizens of Israel where they had come in the previous decades to work because of all the building and expansion in agriculture brought about by settlement, instead they remain political pawns and REFUGEES because of their OWN corrupt leadership.
It was the Arabs expelling and confiscating property of approximately 950 thousand Jews in 14 countries after Israel declared Independence that saw to Jews taking the places of the Palestinian Arabs who had been immigrating into Palestine prior to 1948
Many of the Palestinian Arabs had only lived in the region for 2 years..prior to 1948..to be declared “refugees” as no other refugee status had permitted before or since for such a designation.
Yet nearly a million Jews actually expelled with property confiscated equaling a much larger land mass area than Israel, were absorbed into Israel and made citizens without the billions of dollars of aide the Palestinians have received and still receive decades later
I’ve shown without doubt that Israel has endured generations of attempts to wipe the Jewish presence off the land and shown that by their very own founding documents that they still stand by that goal. If they could be less about destruction of Israel and the Jewish people, and instead show concern over the lives of their own whom they could have removed from refugee status 60years ago and the generations lost to hate propagandizing rather than being productive citizens in the Middle East we would have HAD peace in the Middle East already.
Compare for yourself..the maps, the documentation and more importantly, look what is going on right now. Israel has been attacked repeatedly and shown restraint in ways no other country on the planet would have done and when finally forced to defend itself against an escalation of even that level of violence…they are desperate to hide that truth too. And still lie to call Israel an aggressor on the poor Palestinians.
The DESPERATION we now see with this escalation of lies is because they likely realize that this time..it is different.
They really can’t get away with it this time. ***The world IS watching.***
This article explains some of what I’ve been experiencing in trying to show that the attempts to portray Israel striving to live in peace in the homeland as being evil or immoral for protecting itself against destruction by people hell bent on eliminating them..is the evil injustice that a civilized world should never tolerate.
“Next time read carefully what your sources say because there is a chance people may actually read them! “
That is why I give sources,because unlike many who assume everyone is too lazy to go look carefully or that their wording will be evasive enough, I sincerely hope that people DO read the sources and carefully examine evidence.
Solutions to serious issues can only be achieved by unflinching honesty and serious examination. HONESTY above all is required overcome injustice and bring peace.
EDIT I just noticed this at the answer to the q..don't know when it was altered..but it is a really big whopper of a tale..I don't edit this out because it is such weasel wording and its a common lie made to many.
"He/she claimed that British census of Palestine counted Transjordan in poor attempt to prove that Palestinians were minority in Palestine."
I NEVER SAID "Palestinians were minority in Palestine". Shame on you. Palestinians as I've shown, included 'ALL those people listed, not simply the Arabs as you insist. I also NEVER said Arabs were a minority in either Ottoman or British Mandate Palestine. You know that is a lie.
I've only repeated the same things over and over in response to your bogus claims about the percentage of Jews who lived in Palestine during the census.. that YOUR stated ***percentages of Jews**** living in Palestine could only be considered remotely valid*** if you include the entire British Mandate of Palestine*** and NOT simply the land of Israel..the State of Israel..or even the entire Cisjordan region.
Palestinians meaning JEWS were indeed a minority in the whole of Palestine. They were a majority in Jerusalem and were entirely absent from Transjordan , the lions share of Palestine. Transjordan is now known as Jordan.
I didn't realize there were more than six thousand Jews born in Palestine counted in the census who were living abroad at that time..interesting where they were living, too.
Anyway..back to the POINT..it's hilarious that he claims that this proves I am a liar. I made ONE mistake. My one mistake was that the 1922 Census included Jordan, and I admitted the mistake, and it wasn't even the central point of discussion at all. But let's look at how I'd even arrived at that.
I said that if HIS Percentages of Jews in *all of Palestine* were correct then it would have had to include Jordan where Jews did not live. Becasue as his census even shows there were 11% Jews in 1922 even including parts of Palestine that were not made into Israel where Jews did not claim as the homeland! And if you look at later census figures like he WANTs..well..his 7% figure is even more bogus..he did later admit to 11% before 48 after I'd challenged him months back. but then he kept saing that was the total percentage before 48 when the number of Jews increased a heck of a lot by then...but of course has obviously stewed about being disproven then to keep obsessing so much that he now claims to have created a blog to discredit me. Despite his efforts, they've continued to backfire as the feedback I'm receiviing shows, how evidence continues to overcome hate propagandizing.
My sole mistake does not negate my original points that his own documents, once again, even support upon close examination.
Israel exists as legitimately as any other nation carved out of "Palestine" If Israel is illegal, then they can clearly not claim legal status for the other countries whose names have been given here that were also created from Palestine.
Only because I permitted this whole post to be DEFLECTED from the original points..to keep answering to and correcting lie after lie of personal attack to misrepresent and hide evidence that now
I’m simply going to have to try to dismiss someone obviously so hell bent on fight rather than reason, on promotion of violence to destroy Israel rather than peace.
If you want to work for peace you don't attack everyone doing so with hate and lies.
